1
00:00:05,210 --> 00:00:03,470
hey guys Ryan Sprague here and if this

2
00:00:08,089 --> 00:00:05,220
conversation you're about to hear sounds

3
00:00:10,850 --> 00:00:08,099
familiar it is because this is a

4
00:00:14,089 --> 00:00:10,860
rebroadcast of an interview I conducted

5
00:00:16,550 --> 00:00:14,099
a while ago uh I haven't missed a single

6
00:00:18,290 --> 00:00:16,560
week of summer in the skies bringing you

7
00:00:20,870 --> 00:00:18,300
a brand new episode I haven't missed a

8
00:00:23,990 --> 00:00:20,880
single week since we started the podcast

9
00:00:27,349 --> 00:00:24,000
but unfortunately that has to change

10
00:00:32,089 --> 00:00:27,359
this week I um I recently suffered in

11
00:00:34,729 --> 00:00:32,099
injury while on vacation I ruptured my

12
00:00:37,850 --> 00:00:34,739
right ear drum and actually when I went

13
00:00:40,970 --> 00:00:37,860
to get it checked the doctor checked my

14
00:00:44,630 --> 00:00:40,980
other ear to compare it and damaged that

15
00:00:49,010 --> 00:00:44,640
ear while they were examining it so I'm

16
00:00:52,549 --> 00:00:49,020
basically deaf 90 deaf in both ears

17
00:00:55,549 --> 00:00:52,559
right now and in excruciating pain if

18
00:00:57,770 --> 00:00:55,559
any of you have ever suffered a ruptured

19
00:01:00,830 --> 00:00:57,780
eardrum or know what that's like I'm

20
00:01:03,709 --> 00:01:00,840
sure you can uh you can relate uh

21
00:01:06,830 --> 00:01:03,719
anyways I will spare you the rest of the

22
00:01:09,289 --> 00:01:06,840
details but um I did want to bring you

23
00:01:11,690 --> 00:01:09,299
something this week and this is an

24
00:01:14,929 --> 00:01:11,700
amazing conversation that I had with

25
00:01:17,570 --> 00:01:14,939
both Leslie Kane and Diana Walsh basilka

26
00:01:20,690 --> 00:01:17,580
I was so honored to get them in the same

27
00:01:22,570 --> 00:01:20,700
digital room it was the first time that

28
00:01:26,210 --> 00:01:22,580
both of them did an interview together

29
00:01:28,010 --> 00:01:26,220
uh so I was very honored for that we

30
00:01:31,550 --> 00:01:28,020
talked all about everything they've done

31
00:01:34,249 --> 00:01:31,560
in the UFO field including obviously the

32
00:01:36,350 --> 00:01:34,259
New York Times article Leslie wrote uh

33
00:01:39,469 --> 00:01:36,360
the amazing Book American Cosmic that

34
00:01:41,210 --> 00:01:39,479
Diana wrote and everything in between so

35
00:01:43,609 --> 00:01:41,220
even if you have heard this episode

36
00:01:46,490 --> 00:01:43,619
before I'm sure you'll glean something

37
00:01:49,130 --> 00:01:46,500
new from it so I really really hope you

38
00:01:52,190 --> 00:01:49,140
enjoy this rebroadcast of our interview

39
00:01:54,649 --> 00:01:52,200
with Leslie Kane and Diana Walsh baselka

40
00:01:56,450 --> 00:01:54,659
and uh lastly I wanted to thank all of

41
00:01:58,910 --> 00:01:56,460
you for reaching out on social media

42
00:02:00,050 --> 00:01:58,920
sending your well wishes I did want to

43
00:02:02,149 --> 00:02:00,060
update people and let them know

44
00:02:04,670 --> 00:02:02,159
somewhere in the skies is gonna be move

45
00:02:08,210 --> 00:02:04,680
it a little slow in the coming weeks as

46
00:02:10,430 --> 00:02:08,220
I recover but everything will be okay as

47
00:02:12,710 --> 00:02:10,440
I'm on the road to recovery and I will

48
00:02:14,449 --> 00:02:12,720
be bringing you brand new episodes in

49
00:02:17,030 --> 00:02:14,459
the very near future but in the meantime

50
00:02:19,190 --> 00:02:17,040
I hope you enjoy this and as always keep

51
00:02:21,180 --> 00:02:19,200
your feet on the ground but never stop

52
00:02:23,570 --> 00:02:21,190
searching somewhere in the skies

53
00:02:50,170 --> 00:02:23,580
[Music]

54
00:02:54,350 --> 00:02:52,790
today is a very special day for

55
00:02:57,350 --> 00:02:54,360
somewhere in the skies because somehow

56
00:03:00,410 --> 00:02:57,360
in some way I was able to get two of my

57
00:03:02,869 --> 00:03:00,420
biggest Inspirations in the UFO field in

58
00:03:04,790 --> 00:03:02,879
one digital room together for what is

59
00:03:07,190 --> 00:03:04,800
going to be an amazing conversation I

60
00:03:09,890 --> 00:03:07,200
have no doubt I have with me past guest

61
00:03:12,410 --> 00:03:09,900
professor and author Diana Walsh basilka

62
00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:12,420
and First Time guest journalist and

63
00:03:18,050 --> 00:03:15,840
author Leslie Kane thank you so so much

64
00:03:21,130 --> 00:03:18,060
to the both of you for being here so

65
00:03:23,869 --> 00:03:21,140
before we we sort of dive in here today

66
00:03:27,589 --> 00:03:23,879
I wanted to give those in my audience

67
00:03:30,050 --> 00:03:27,599
who may be new to the whole UFO thing or

68
00:03:32,990 --> 00:03:30,060
just hopping in on this episode

69
00:03:35,089 --> 00:03:33,000
um sort of a refresher for the UFO Buffs

70
00:03:37,009 --> 00:03:35,099
out there and a little crash course for

71
00:03:39,710 --> 00:03:37,019
the newbies in the work that you two are

72
00:03:41,690 --> 00:03:39,720
primarily known for in the UFO world so

73
00:03:44,210 --> 00:03:41,700
I guess Diana would you mind telling us

74
00:03:47,030 --> 00:03:44,220
a little about who you are and what your

75
00:03:49,789 --> 00:03:47,040
book American Cosmic was all about sure

76
00:03:51,830 --> 00:03:49,799
so I am a professor of religious studies

77
00:03:55,070 --> 00:03:51,840
at the University of North Carolina in

78
00:03:59,210 --> 00:03:55,080
Wilmington and I wrote American Cosmic

79
00:04:02,930 --> 00:03:59,220
religion UFOs and technology and

80
00:04:06,170 --> 00:04:02,940
um it's a it's kind of a crazy journey

81
00:04:09,229 --> 00:04:06,180
through silicon Valley's entrepreneurs

82
00:04:12,410 --> 00:04:09,239
or technopreneurs really and how they

83
00:04:15,289 --> 00:04:12,420
believe in UFOs and even have believe

84
00:04:17,509 --> 00:04:15,299
that they have UFO parts and back

85
00:04:19,490 --> 00:04:17,519
engineer them and things like that but

86
00:04:22,009 --> 00:04:19,500
it's also about technology and its

87
00:04:24,530 --> 00:04:22,019
impact on us and the creation of

88
00:04:27,770 --> 00:04:24,540
religions and things like that and it is

89
00:04:29,990 --> 00:04:27,780
also a huge contributor in the last few

90
00:04:32,030 --> 00:04:30,000
years I would say to the overall UFO

91
00:04:33,650 --> 00:04:32,040
conversation and bringing it to the

92
00:04:35,510 --> 00:04:33,660
mainstream and I don't think anyone

93
00:04:37,670 --> 00:04:35,520
really knows that better than Leslie

94
00:04:40,430 --> 00:04:37,680
you've done so much amazing work in and

95
00:04:42,230 --> 00:04:40,440
out of the UFO research world but if you

96
00:04:44,689 --> 00:04:42,240
wouldn't mind could you maybe tell us a

97
00:04:46,249 --> 00:04:44,699
little about your book UFOs generals

98
00:04:48,469 --> 00:04:46,259
pilots and government officials go on

99
00:04:50,230 --> 00:04:48,479
the record and also the cover in article

100
00:04:53,030 --> 00:04:50,240
you release through the New York Times

101
00:04:55,790 --> 00:04:53,040
which in my opinion I'm sure others

102
00:04:58,310 --> 00:04:55,800
agree along with Diana's book has moved

103
00:05:00,290 --> 00:04:58,320
UFOs more into the mainstream than ever

104
00:05:02,150 --> 00:05:00,300
before so yeah can you give us a little

105
00:05:04,909 --> 00:05:02,160
bit about all that you've done Leslie

106
00:05:06,890 --> 00:05:04,919
was New York Times bestseller and it had

107
00:05:08,570 --> 00:05:06,900
a forward by John podesta done and

108
00:05:10,610 --> 00:05:08,580
included chapters written by a lot of

109
00:05:12,530 --> 00:05:10,620
really impressive people who I was

110
00:05:14,749 --> 00:05:12,540
fortunate were willing to contribute to

111
00:05:17,090 --> 00:05:14,759
the book and it just presents the kind

112
00:05:19,310 --> 00:05:17,100
of Hardcore best evidence for the

113
00:05:22,189 --> 00:05:19,320
reality of the phenomenon and I think it

114
00:05:25,249 --> 00:05:22,199
it really established that in a very uh

115
00:05:27,830 --> 00:05:25,259
solid way uh so case studies and

116
00:05:29,629 --> 00:05:27,840
interviews and Analysis and all of that

117
00:05:32,029 --> 00:05:29,639
and these chapters written by the people

118
00:05:33,950 --> 00:05:32,039
themselves which make it really powerful

119
00:05:35,689 --> 00:05:33,960
um it was sort of the culmination of 10

120
00:05:38,450 --> 00:05:35,699
years of reporting that I had done on

121
00:05:40,909 --> 00:05:38,460
UFOs prior to that and so fast forward

122
00:05:43,189 --> 00:05:40,919
another 10 years to the present I

123
00:05:45,710 --> 00:05:43,199
co-authored two stories for the New York

124
00:05:48,290 --> 00:05:45,720
Times which to me was like the Pinnacle

125
00:05:51,590 --> 00:05:48,300
of my career because I would have never

126
00:05:53,450 --> 00:05:51,600
expected to be able to do that and I if

127
00:05:57,230 --> 00:05:53,460
I could have picked one paper that would

128
00:06:00,110 --> 00:05:57,240
be the one so um December September 2017

129
00:06:01,490 --> 00:06:00,120
was the first story and I hear listeners

130
00:06:03,770 --> 00:06:01,500
are probably familiar with it where we

131
00:06:05,330 --> 00:06:03,780
both the news about the Pentagon UFO

132
00:06:09,110 --> 00:06:05,340
program would have been secret until

133
00:06:11,930 --> 00:06:09,120
then and then and in 2019 we did another

134
00:06:15,050 --> 00:06:11,940
story about Navy pilots who reported

135
00:06:18,590 --> 00:06:15,060
sightings of UFOs off the U.S Roosevelt

136
00:06:21,050 --> 00:06:18,600
in 2015 and we also included videos with

137
00:06:23,150 --> 00:06:21,060
those stories official Pentagon videos

138
00:06:24,890 --> 00:06:23,160
which made them particularly I think

139
00:06:27,469 --> 00:06:24,900
that's a lot of what the draw was for

140
00:06:30,770 --> 00:06:27,479
people so that's my work in a nutshell

141
00:06:33,350 --> 00:06:30,780
and I mean once this story hit Leslie it

142
00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:33,360
just it completely changed the way we

143
00:06:37,070 --> 00:06:35,520
talk about UFOs in and out of the

144
00:06:40,129 --> 00:06:37,080
mainstream and even for the UFO

145
00:06:41,870 --> 00:06:40,139
community in general so I'm sure some of

146
00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:41,880
our listeners would would be curious to

147
00:06:46,309 --> 00:06:44,400
know how did the New York Times article

148
00:06:49,129 --> 00:06:46,319
come about and what was it like after

149
00:06:50,870 --> 00:06:49,139
the article went live for you expecting

150
00:06:52,969 --> 00:06:50,880
to get this sort of response that you

151
00:06:55,490 --> 00:06:52,979
did or how how did this all come about

152
00:06:58,010 --> 00:06:55,500
the origin story as it were well what

153
00:07:00,050 --> 00:06:58,020
happened was um I was invited when when

154
00:07:03,290 --> 00:07:00,060
I was invited to a meeting with Lou

155
00:07:05,510 --> 00:07:03,300
Elizondo who was the person who was the

156
00:07:07,790 --> 00:07:05,520
head of this program or whatever

157
00:07:10,309 --> 00:07:07,800
designation you want to call it he sort

158
00:07:12,010 --> 00:07:10,319
of led the program uh the whole time

159
00:07:16,129 --> 00:07:12,020
from 20

160
00:07:18,770 --> 00:07:16,139
2007 until the time he left which was in

161
00:07:21,290 --> 00:07:18,780
2017 so it was 10 years and literally

162
00:07:24,230 --> 00:07:21,300
the day that he resigned from that

163
00:07:26,330 --> 00:07:24,240
position I was called Down by some of

164
00:07:28,430 --> 00:07:26,340
his associates to Washington DC to meet

165
00:07:30,290 --> 00:07:28,440
with him and so I met with him and three

166
00:07:31,969 --> 00:07:30,300
other people who were close to him these

167
00:07:33,469 --> 00:07:31,979
were two of them were people I had known

168
00:07:35,570 --> 00:07:33,479
for a long time

169
00:07:39,290 --> 00:07:35,580
and people who are associated with the

170
00:07:42,050 --> 00:07:39,300
program and worked with him and uh was

171
00:07:44,870 --> 00:07:42,060
shown the videos was shown a lot of

172
00:07:48,230 --> 00:07:44,880
information I got to talk to him for a

173
00:07:49,730 --> 00:07:48,240
long time to Elizondo and

174
00:07:51,529 --> 00:07:49,740
um I think part of the reason for that

175
00:07:52,850 --> 00:07:51,539
was to see if there might be something

176
00:07:54,409 --> 00:07:52,860
there that could go to the New York

177
00:07:56,689 --> 00:07:54,419
Times and I

178
00:07:59,210 --> 00:07:56,699
was without doubt I recognized

179
00:08:01,249 --> 00:07:59,220
immediately the power of the story and I

180
00:08:03,950 --> 00:08:01,259
was completely blown away by having that

181
00:08:05,570 --> 00:08:03,960
opportunity and by realizing what this

182
00:08:07,309 --> 00:08:05,580
meant that you know what we were going

183
00:08:09,650 --> 00:08:07,319
to be able to expose if we could indeed

184
00:08:11,390 --> 00:08:09,660
get it into the New York Times

185
00:08:14,029 --> 00:08:11,400
um so without taking any information

186
00:08:16,850 --> 00:08:14,039
with me but I was seeing stuff that has

187
00:08:19,309 --> 00:08:16,860
since uh been made public over over the

188
00:08:21,309 --> 00:08:19,319
time period between men and now and even

189
00:08:23,930 --> 00:08:21,319
more stuff that hasn't been made public

190
00:08:27,170 --> 00:08:23,940
I went to my colleague Ralph Blumenthal

191
00:08:29,330 --> 00:08:27,180
who um I've worked with before on New

192
00:08:31,129 --> 00:08:29,340
York Times stuff and he was on the staff

193
00:08:32,990 --> 00:08:31,139
there for many years he's now a

194
00:08:35,810 --> 00:08:33,000
freelancer for the time so he he's the

195
00:08:38,990 --> 00:08:35,820
one that had the door into the times we

196
00:08:40,790 --> 00:08:39,000
took the story to a lead uh invest the

197
00:08:43,430 --> 00:08:40,800
editor for investigations from

198
00:08:44,269 --> 00:08:43,440
Washington D.C who happened to be in New

199
00:08:46,250 --> 00:08:44,279
York

200
00:08:48,050 --> 00:08:46,260
sat down and had a meeting with him his

201
00:08:50,210 --> 00:08:48,060
name is Mark Mazzetti

202
00:08:52,070 --> 00:08:50,220
um and just laid everything out on the

203
00:08:55,490 --> 00:08:52,080
table for him and pitched the story

204
00:08:57,050 --> 00:08:55,500
basically and he said

205
00:08:59,030 --> 00:08:57,060
um taking it to Washington I'll get back

206
00:09:00,949 --> 00:08:59,040
to you in a week and we got the call in

207
00:09:03,290 --> 00:09:00,959
a week let's go for it so that's how it

208
00:09:05,329 --> 00:09:03,300
all started and our editor was the head

209
00:09:07,130 --> 00:09:05,339
of the Washington Bureau so she's a

210
00:09:09,170 --> 00:09:07,140
really prominent person within the paper

211
00:09:13,730 --> 00:09:09,180
and we were assigned to work with

212
00:09:15,889 --> 00:09:13,740
Colleen Cooper who is the um you know

213
00:09:18,290 --> 00:09:15,899
prize-winning reporter for the Times who

214
00:09:20,269 --> 00:09:18,300
covers the Pentagon she is the person

215
00:09:23,389 --> 00:09:20,279
who knows the Pentagon so we couldn't

216
00:09:25,130 --> 00:09:23,399
ask for a better person to work with uh

217
00:09:27,170 --> 00:09:25,140
and so that's how it started and then we

218
00:09:29,150 --> 00:09:27,180
spent a couple of months uh doing the

219
00:09:32,090 --> 00:09:29,160
work you have to do to to make a story

220
00:09:35,389 --> 00:09:32,100
and lots of rounds of editing um it was

221
00:09:38,269 --> 00:09:35,399
you know a difficult process but we just

222
00:09:40,190 --> 00:09:38,279
kept our goal in mind uh and then it

223
00:09:42,050 --> 00:09:40,200
came out and so that's sort of that's

224
00:09:44,570 --> 00:09:42,060
how the whole thing happened and the

225
00:09:46,790 --> 00:09:44,580
videos were provided by a source that

226
00:09:49,610 --> 00:09:46,800
I'm I'm not in a position to name right

227
00:09:51,769 --> 00:09:49,620
now but I think pretty soon that

228
00:09:53,630 --> 00:09:51,779
source's name is gonna I mean he's gonna

229
00:09:55,610 --> 00:09:53,640
probably reveal who he is because

230
00:09:57,110 --> 00:09:55,620
everything else is coming out but I

231
00:09:59,090 --> 00:09:57,120
don't want to be the one to do that so

232
00:10:00,050 --> 00:09:59,100
that's that's a big part of what the two

233
00:10:01,490 --> 00:10:00,060
of you

234
00:10:04,790 --> 00:10:01,500
um the information you're bringing

235
00:10:07,009 --> 00:10:04,800
forward isn't easy to get access to and

236
00:10:10,130 --> 00:10:07,019
you are getting this information with

237
00:10:12,230 --> 00:10:10,140
the you know the firm deal with these

238
00:10:14,509 --> 00:10:12,240
people that they will not be named and

239
00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:14,519
that's that's how these things work and

240
00:10:17,449 --> 00:10:16,500
I think that's what makes what both of

241
00:10:20,090 --> 00:10:17,459
you are doing

242
00:10:21,889 --> 00:10:20,100
um extremely vital to to what gets out

243
00:10:23,690 --> 00:10:21,899
there and also the fact that Leslie I

244
00:10:26,090 --> 00:10:23,700
mean the article came out and it really

245
00:10:27,769 --> 00:10:26,100
caught the Pentagon by surprise and they

246
00:10:30,110 --> 00:10:27,779
didn't really know what to say and now

247
00:10:33,290 --> 00:10:30,120
we see their statements changing

248
00:10:35,690 --> 00:10:33,300
constantly when it comes to this UFO

249
00:10:38,030 --> 00:10:35,700
question and where they lay in all of

250
00:10:41,030 --> 00:10:38,040
this um so whenever you look for

251
00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:41,040
articles on what's going on with atip

252
00:10:46,430 --> 00:10:43,920
and the Pentagon and and all these

253
00:10:48,710 --> 00:10:46,440
different people involved uh you both

254
00:10:51,290 --> 00:10:48,720
your names Diana and Leslie keep showing

255
00:10:52,850 --> 00:10:51,300
up in the same articles and I think for

256
00:10:56,329 --> 00:10:52,860
those out there who read all those we've

257
00:10:58,910 --> 00:10:56,339
noted this that the work you to do it

258
00:11:00,530 --> 00:10:58,920
intersects in really unique in

259
00:11:02,509 --> 00:11:00,540
interesting ways so what I kind of

260
00:11:04,850 --> 00:11:02,519
wanted to do today with the both of you

261
00:11:05,930 --> 00:11:04,860
is just stretch out have a conversation

262
00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:05,940
you know

263
00:11:08,569 --> 00:11:07,260
um we're so used to these interviews

264
00:11:11,569 --> 00:11:08,579
where it's question answer question

265
00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:11,579
answer but I'd rather just kind of open

266
00:11:17,690 --> 00:11:15,060
it up to the both of you and um see

267
00:11:20,329 --> 00:11:17,700
where we laid now in 2020 when it comes

268
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:20,339
to the UFO question so maybe Leslie

269
00:11:25,069 --> 00:11:21,839
would you could you maybe tell us a

270
00:11:26,810 --> 00:11:25,079
little about how you and Diana first got

271
00:11:28,250 --> 00:11:26,820
connected and maybe a little about why

272
00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:28,260
you think the work that you two are

273
00:11:33,650 --> 00:11:30,480
doing uh complements one another in the

274
00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:33,660
overall UFO question I think Diana we

275
00:11:38,690 --> 00:11:35,880
first Ralph and I actually contacted

276
00:11:41,810 --> 00:11:38,700
Diana because we were given Advanced

277
00:11:44,750 --> 00:11:41,820
copies of her book completely recognized

278
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:44,760
the importance of that book right away

279
00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:46,320
and we were trying to find a way to

280
00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:48,240
maybe be able to do a New York Times

281
00:11:53,449 --> 00:11:51,300
story around the book but you know and

282
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:53,459
then I remember too as this journal list

283
00:11:57,650 --> 00:11:56,160
before it even met Diana I was of course

284
00:11:59,449 --> 00:11:57,660
trying to figure out who some of these

285
00:12:01,370 --> 00:11:59,459
Anonymous characters were in her book

286
00:12:03,530 --> 00:12:01,380
because we thought to write about the

287
00:12:05,810 --> 00:12:03,540
for the New York Times we would need

288
00:12:07,850 --> 00:12:05,820
that but then I realized there was no

289
00:12:10,370 --> 00:12:07,860
way even if I find out who they are that

290
00:12:12,769 --> 00:12:10,380
I would ever ever put their names out

291
00:12:15,290 --> 00:12:12,779
there and then gradually Diana and I

292
00:12:17,150 --> 00:12:15,300
just started having conversations and

293
00:12:20,030 --> 00:12:17,160
emails and we know some of the same

294
00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:20,040
people and uh we just got to know each

295
00:12:25,490 --> 00:12:23,040
other better and better over time and we

296
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:25,500
met in New York for the first time I

297
00:12:29,810 --> 00:12:27,839
forget when it was Diana not too long

298
00:12:32,690 --> 00:12:29,820
ago so

299
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,700
um yeah I think I mean one place you

300
00:12:37,730 --> 00:12:34,560
know one one issue that you raised Ryan

301
00:12:40,130 --> 00:12:37,740
that is very similar for both of us is

302
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:40,140
having to deal with very high level

303
00:12:44,930 --> 00:12:42,480
people with a lot of knowledge who will

304
00:12:48,170 --> 00:12:44,940
not be named and of course Diana's book

305
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:48,180
was based on two characters like that so

306
00:12:51,470 --> 00:12:49,680
I might be interesting for you Donnie to

307
00:12:55,370 --> 00:12:51,480
subscribe what that was like it's

308
00:12:57,470 --> 00:12:55,380
against what I do to as an academic to

309
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:57,480
not reveal sources I mean that's what we

310
00:13:02,810 --> 00:13:00,480
do as academic is academics is we reveal

311
00:13:04,190 --> 00:13:02,820
sources so I had to get used to just

312
00:13:07,610 --> 00:13:04,200
being you know I've been doing this

313
00:13:11,810 --> 00:13:07,620
since 2012 and so I had to get used to

314
00:13:14,449 --> 00:13:11,820
not to actually being okay with not

315
00:13:16,730 --> 00:13:14,459
revealing people's names because it

316
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:16,740
could get them in trouble you know I

317
00:13:22,430 --> 00:13:18,839
don't want to do that but I also want to

318
00:13:25,490 --> 00:13:22,440
write about the topic I do remember

319
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:25,500
um the very day the very where where I

320
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:27,680
was it's one of those things for me when

321
00:13:33,769 --> 00:13:30,720
Leslie and her friend at the New York

322
00:13:37,129 --> 00:13:33,779
Times came out in 2017 during Christmas

323
00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:37,139
you know the Christmas holidays and it

324
00:13:40,970 --> 00:13:39,240
was giant I mean I couldn't even believe

325
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:40,980
well first I already knew about Leslie's

326
00:13:45,470 --> 00:13:43,920
book and I um when I taught courses I

327
00:13:47,750 --> 00:13:45,480
have a section called new religious

328
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:47,760
movements and I would use her book as

329
00:13:52,730 --> 00:13:50,639
text in my classes and the students

330
00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:52,740
loved it you know it's like it's one of

331
00:13:58,370 --> 00:13:54,660
the top five books ever written about

332
00:14:01,430 --> 00:13:58,380
UFOs and it's just such a concise book

333
00:14:03,470 --> 00:14:01,440
and there's no there's no BS in the book

334
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:03,480
you know it's really straightforward and

335
00:14:08,930 --> 00:14:06,480
you can't really argue with it and so

336
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:08,940
um this is the book I would use and so

337
00:14:13,190 --> 00:14:11,279
then I read this I remember the day I

338
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,200
read I remember just reading it and oh

339
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:15,120
and reading it again and then everybody

340
00:14:20,509 --> 00:14:17,760
of course uh who had anything to do with

341
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:20,519
UFOs went crazy about it and the general

342
00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:22,320
public I got phone calls from people

343
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:25,800
from Harvard who used to dismiss what I

344
00:14:31,069 --> 00:14:28,800
did and all of a sudden were asking me

345
00:14:32,750 --> 00:14:31,079
about my sources and things like that

346
00:14:35,329 --> 00:14:32,760
and how they could get involved in the

347
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:35,339
research so you know it opened the door

348
00:14:41,449 --> 00:14:38,639
for legitimate scholarship into this

349
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:41,459
area so uh Blumenthal and

350
00:14:48,410 --> 00:14:45,360
um Leslie did this and so it was huge

351
00:14:50,090 --> 00:14:48,420
and I couldn't believe it and everything

352
00:14:51,410 --> 00:14:50,100
changed after that I mean my book I

353
00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:51,420
don't even think had come out yet it

354
00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:54,300
came out in 2019 so yeah my book wasn't

355
00:14:58,850 --> 00:14:55,260
out

356
00:15:01,310 --> 00:14:58,860
people I didn't know that that Leslie

357
00:15:03,650 --> 00:15:01,320
and Ralph got an advanced copy and we

358
00:15:06,530 --> 00:15:03,660
had a series of conversations in which

359
00:15:09,530 --> 00:15:06,540
we talked about you know the the

360
00:15:13,490 --> 00:15:09,540
question of sources and why they can't

361
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:13,500
be known and we also knew that this is

362
00:15:19,189 --> 00:15:15,839
something that a lot of people would uh

363
00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:19,199
would critique us for and get angry

364
00:15:23,449 --> 00:15:21,420
about and that type of thing but we

365
00:15:25,370 --> 00:15:23,459
can't ignore the fact that this

366
00:15:27,170 --> 00:15:25,380
phenomena which I'm looking at from the

367
00:15:28,430 --> 00:15:27,180
religious studies angle and which Leslie

368
00:15:31,550 --> 00:15:28,440
looks out from the investigative

369
00:15:33,230 --> 00:15:31,560
journalist angle you know once we

370
00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:33,240
understand that we also have to

371
00:15:36,829 --> 00:15:34,920
understand there will be things that we

372
00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:36,839
can't know yeah I mean that's a really

373
00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:39,180
good point and that while we're you know

374
00:15:43,550 --> 00:15:41,100
we're getting these breadcrumbs here and

375
00:15:45,410 --> 00:15:43,560
there and uh the people that the two of

376
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:45,420
you are willing to talk to can only give

377
00:15:50,090 --> 00:15:47,040
you so much

378
00:15:51,530 --> 00:15:50,100
um it's a step in a direction that I

379
00:15:55,310 --> 00:15:51,540
don't think we've really ever seen

380
00:15:57,710 --> 00:15:55,320
before and this kind of brings me to to

381
00:15:59,870 --> 00:15:57,720
an interesting question from one of our

382
00:16:01,310 --> 00:15:59,880
listeners on Twitter that I would love

383
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,320
to interject here

384
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:03,360
um that has to do with both of you Diana

385
00:16:09,290 --> 00:16:06,720
after being immersed in you know UFO

386
00:16:11,329 --> 00:16:09,300
fight clubs you know for a while do you

387
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:11,339
feel that Tyler and James these two

388
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:14,399
people who you know remain anonymous to

389
00:16:19,490 --> 00:16:16,320
most of the public um do you believe

390
00:16:21,290 --> 00:16:19,500
that um that you were sort of when they

391
00:16:24,410 --> 00:16:21,300
came forward with the information they

392
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:24,420
gave you uh that this was all sort of

393
00:16:31,790 --> 00:16:28,160
planned or that American Cosmic was used

394
00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:31,800
to reveal certain things that they

395
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:33,420
wanted to get out to the public how much

396
00:16:37,370 --> 00:16:35,279
do you think the people that were in

397
00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:37,380
your book how much you were in control

398
00:16:41,329 --> 00:16:39,660
and how much they were in control of

399
00:16:46,370 --> 00:16:41,339
what was going on if that makes any

400
00:16:50,689 --> 00:16:48,350
look in the book because you know James

401
00:16:53,290 --> 00:16:50,699
is an academic and I bring him to the

402
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:53,300
desert with me you know when we go there

403
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:57,839
to an alleged crash site of UFO and we

404
00:17:02,090 --> 00:17:00,000
kind of confer and what we don't kind of

405
00:17:05,030 --> 00:17:02,100
confer we confirm we say are we being

406
00:17:07,010 --> 00:17:05,040
set up you know is this a setup and the

407
00:17:09,409 --> 00:17:07,020
question is that

408
00:17:12,829 --> 00:17:09,419
um I mean the answer is that in a sense

409
00:17:16,850 --> 00:17:12,839
this is this is information that was

410
00:17:19,490 --> 00:17:16,860
that needed to get out and that a

411
00:17:22,189 --> 00:17:19,500
certain group wanted to get out however

412
00:17:24,770 --> 00:17:22,199
I am an academic with Integrity I've

413
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:24,780
never I've never done anything in my

414
00:17:30,530 --> 00:17:27,120
career so far that has been something

415
00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:30,540
against my own academic ethics and so I

416
00:17:35,330 --> 00:17:33,540
agreed like I agreed to say okay you

417
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:35,340
could be suit on you know you can you

418
00:17:40,850 --> 00:17:38,520
can have a pseudonym and I won't reveal

419
00:17:43,010 --> 00:17:40,860
who you are and you will let me into

420
00:17:46,010 --> 00:17:43,020
your world and show me things and I

421
00:17:49,130 --> 00:17:46,020
think that they wanted the public to see

422
00:17:50,930 --> 00:17:49,140
I I don't think they thought that this

423
00:17:53,570 --> 00:17:50,940
would get out as big as it got out

424
00:17:55,850 --> 00:17:53,580
honestly and go in certain directions

425
00:17:57,950 --> 00:17:55,860
that it's gone you know there's that

426
00:18:00,650 --> 00:17:57,960
unintended consequences type of thing

427
00:18:02,330 --> 00:18:00,660
that happens but I do think that um you

428
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:02,340
know this was a collaboration with

429
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:04,559
people and we all made agreements even

430
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:07,200
Oxford University press you know we made

431
00:18:12,409 --> 00:18:09,840
we made agreements that we would keep

432
00:18:13,850 --> 00:18:12,419
certain things uh that they wanted us to

433
00:18:15,049 --> 00:18:13,860
keep and we would reveal certain things

434
00:18:16,970 --> 00:18:15,059
and the only reason we would keep

435
00:18:19,070 --> 00:18:16,980
certain things quiet is is

436
00:18:22,130 --> 00:18:19,080
to protect human beings you know to

437
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:22,140
protect people and so I agreed to be

438
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:25,440
part of the whole project and this kind

439
00:18:30,590 --> 00:18:28,320
of um this ties into a question I have

440
00:18:33,529 --> 00:18:30,600
for you Leslie this actually comes from

441
00:18:36,350 --> 00:18:33,539
a scientist that listens to our show the

442
00:18:38,690 --> 00:18:36,360
mad scientist podcast Chris Cogswell on

443
00:18:42,049 --> 00:18:38,700
Twitter he asks you Leslie do you have

444
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:42,059
any further information on how um Bob

445
00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:44,160
Bigelow's team was vetted by the

446
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,200
government during their bidding with

447
00:18:50,570 --> 00:18:48,480
atip and ASAP and all these programs are

448
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:50,580
learning about how much do you know

449
00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:53,940
about how Bob Bigelow was connected to

450
00:18:58,909 --> 00:18:56,880
all this and where they stand today with

451
00:19:00,770 --> 00:18:58,919
with what's going on and the information

452
00:19:02,510 --> 00:19:00,780
that is that's been brought forward

453
00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:02,520
basically

454
00:19:07,490 --> 00:19:05,220
um you know Bob Bigelow was a colleague

455
00:19:09,950 --> 00:19:07,500
and friend of Harry Reids and Senator

456
00:19:12,289 --> 00:19:09,960
Harry Reid was instrumental in setting

457
00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:12,299
up the program but as I what I was told

458
00:19:16,730 --> 00:19:14,940
as I understand it was anyone could have

459
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,740
applied so what happened was they had a

460
00:19:20,510 --> 00:19:18,960
bunch budget to hire an independent

461
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:20,520
contractor who was going to sort of

462
00:19:24,890 --> 00:19:22,799
oversee all the research that was going

463
00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:24,900
to be done in connection with the atip

464
00:19:29,390 --> 00:19:27,780
program and any number of people could

465
00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:29,400
have applied for that it was an open

466
00:19:34,610 --> 00:19:32,580
open Deal there and Bob Bigelow applied

467
00:19:37,310 --> 00:19:34,620
and he ended up getting the contract and

468
00:19:39,950 --> 00:19:37,320
I I've actually seen the document in

469
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:39,960
which he was granted that contract and

470
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:42,480
you know there was nothing kind of

471
00:19:46,669 --> 00:19:44,880
strange or weird about it he just went

472
00:19:48,409 --> 00:19:46,679
through the process that that anybody

473
00:19:51,529 --> 00:19:48,419
would go through who was applying for

474
00:19:53,630 --> 00:19:51,539
that and he was very well suited for it

475
00:19:56,810 --> 00:19:53,640
because he had a background in this

476
00:20:00,169 --> 00:19:56,820
field uh he had facilities that would

477
00:20:03,049 --> 00:20:00,179
have allowed him to do a lot of work he

478
00:20:05,570 --> 00:20:03,059
knew a lot of people uh and basically

479
00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:05,580
what he did once he got the contract was

480
00:20:11,150 --> 00:20:08,940
he sort of stepped aside and and hired

481
00:20:14,150 --> 00:20:11,160
in a kind of an executive director to

482
00:20:15,890 --> 00:20:14,160
run everything and uh then they got

483
00:20:18,650 --> 00:20:15,900
these papers that everybody's probably

484
00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:18,660
heard about these it goes 34 papers

485
00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:20,760
research papers that were done by

486
00:20:26,330 --> 00:20:22,620
various scientists over the world and

487
00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:26,340
covering different aspects of areas that

488
00:20:30,169 --> 00:20:27,660
they thought to be investigated in

489
00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:30,179
relationship to this phenomenon um and

490
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:32,100
so being alone what's the contract came

491
00:20:36,409 --> 00:20:34,320
in he wasn't that actively involved with

492
00:20:38,330 --> 00:20:36,419
everything so

493
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:38,340
um home Kelleher who people may have

494
00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:40,080
heard of was the person that sort of

495
00:20:44,690 --> 00:20:43,260
oversaw how everything was going on so

496
00:20:47,390 --> 00:20:44,700
um and I think the main thing was those

497
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:47,400
papers and what's interesting about the

498
00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:49,679
papers is that a lot of the scientists

499
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:51,840
who were asked to do that research did

500
00:20:57,890 --> 00:20:54,179
not know why they were being asked to do

501
00:20:59,810 --> 00:20:57,900
it so it's not like they were approached

502
00:21:02,150 --> 00:20:59,820
by somebody who said I'm working for a

503
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:02,160
government program that's studying UFOs

504
00:21:06,049 --> 00:21:03,840
we want to know this this that or the

505
00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:06,059
other thing they would just uh not tell

506
00:21:10,610 --> 00:21:07,860
them that but tell them we want to know

507
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,620
something about whatever this particular

508
00:21:14,750 --> 00:21:12,480
area was and it didn't have to they

509
00:21:16,850 --> 00:21:14,760
didn't have to disclose the fact that it

510
00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:16,860
was concerning with UFOs so that

511
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:18,360
happened for a lot of the papers too

512
00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:19,679
which I thought was kind of interesting

513
00:21:23,450 --> 00:21:21,360
yeah and I think everybody knows that

514
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,460
Bigelow has a history of interest in

515
00:21:27,890 --> 00:21:25,679
this topic and also they know about nibs

516
00:21:29,930 --> 00:21:27,900
the work he did the National Institute

517
00:21:32,750 --> 00:21:29,940
of Discovery Science for many many years

518
00:21:35,090 --> 00:21:32,760
and uh the work he did at the ranch

519
00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:35,100
which is of course the in Utah the skin

520
00:21:38,750 --> 00:21:37,320
marker Ranch which is fascinating so

521
00:21:40,610 --> 00:21:38,760
that's that's basically what I know

522
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:40,620
about the history of his relationship to

523
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,240
all of this there are a lot of

524
00:21:45,890 --> 00:21:44,400
connections that Leslie and I there are

525
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:45,900
a lot of aspects that are similar in

526
00:21:49,549 --> 00:21:47,280
terms of our research because we're both

527
00:21:51,890 --> 00:21:49,559
in a sense we're Outsiders who got let

528
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:51,900
inside for a little bit and not

529
00:21:56,750 --> 00:21:54,480
completely inside but we did get a view

530
00:21:58,610 --> 00:21:56,760
of what's going on and something that

531
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,620
Leslie said is something that I

532
00:22:02,210 --> 00:22:00,720
encountered a lot only certain

533
00:22:04,549 --> 00:22:02,220
scientists knew what they were working

534
00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:04,559
on and they would have a whole Bevy of

535
00:22:08,210 --> 00:22:06,600
other scientists who would not have a

536
00:22:10,850 --> 00:22:08,220
clue that they were working on things

537
00:22:12,049 --> 00:22:10,860
that had to do with the phenomena and I

538
00:22:15,049 --> 00:22:12,059
think that's really interesting because

539
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:15,059
that goes into what I call the UFO Fight

540
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:16,799
Club phenomena right the compartment

541
00:22:22,370 --> 00:22:19,679
realization of this information so that

542
00:22:24,409 --> 00:22:22,380
it would not get out and I think that

543
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,419
that's something that the uh I think

544
00:22:28,370 --> 00:22:26,159
ufologists would find that fascinating

545
00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:28,380
I'm not making it up you know Leslie

546
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:30,600
just confirmed that this that again

547
00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:33,120
these people didn't know what they were

548
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:34,860
doing a lot of times you know they were

549
00:22:39,289 --> 00:22:37,200
working on it Coleman actually before my

550
00:22:41,090 --> 00:22:39,299
book came out he actually asked uh he

551
00:22:44,810 --> 00:22:41,100
didn't even know my book was was coming

552
00:22:47,149 --> 00:22:44,820
out about my work in um with angels you

553
00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:47,159
know and like uh the physicality of

554
00:22:50,570 --> 00:22:48,780
angels which I have written about in the

555
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:50,580
Catholic tradition and I thought who is

556
00:22:55,250 --> 00:22:52,320
this person and and why are they you

557
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:55,260
know this is what this was before I was

558
00:23:00,169 --> 00:22:57,840
hip to what was going on you know and I

559
00:23:02,690 --> 00:23:00,179
thought why do these people want to know

560
00:23:04,669 --> 00:23:02,700
about angels of all people so it was a

561
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:04,679
kind of a confusing time for me to

562
00:23:08,090 --> 00:23:06,720
understand that you know what they're

563
00:23:12,110 --> 00:23:08,100
doing is they're looking at the history

564
00:23:14,270 --> 00:23:12,120
of this type of phenomena and uh what

565
00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:14,280
they can glean data basically from what

566
00:23:18,529 --> 00:23:15,840
they can glean from this stuff

567
00:23:20,510 --> 00:23:18,539
historically and this brings us to an

568
00:23:23,090 --> 00:23:20,520
interesting facet to all this that we've

569
00:23:25,070 --> 00:23:23,100
heard rumors about when it comes to how

570
00:23:28,370 --> 00:23:25,080
the you know this government with a

571
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:28,380
capital G I guess has dealt with the UFO

572
00:23:33,289 --> 00:23:30,720
topic and we've heard that there are

573
00:23:35,870 --> 00:23:33,299
those in the classified world who sort

574
00:23:37,730 --> 00:23:35,880
of worship the quote unquote phenomenon

575
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:37,740
uh this is a Twitter question that we

576
00:23:42,350 --> 00:23:39,840
have from Eric from the both of you have

577
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,360
you ever come across these instances

578
00:23:46,430 --> 00:23:44,400
where people in the government have

579
00:23:48,890 --> 00:23:46,440
looked at the UFO topic from such a

580
00:23:50,930 --> 00:23:48,900
religious fashion I guess Diana let's

581
00:23:52,490 --> 00:23:50,940
start with you sure

582
00:23:54,890 --> 00:23:52,500
um there uh

583
00:23:58,430 --> 00:23:54,900
Nick Redfern you know wrote about the

584
00:24:01,970 --> 00:23:58,440
Collins Elite and I've actually I know

585
00:24:04,430 --> 00:24:01,980
that they they do actually exist and I

586
00:24:06,350 --> 00:24:04,440
also I I think that they look at this

587
00:24:08,510 --> 00:24:06,360
phenomena religiously okay that doesn't

588
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:08,520
mean they worship it it means that

589
00:24:12,529 --> 00:24:09,840
they're looking at this from the

590
00:24:13,490 --> 00:24:12,539
perspective of a religious framework you

591
00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:13,500
know a lot of people have really

592
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:16,140
spiritual experiences when they have uh

593
00:24:22,610 --> 00:24:18,720
when these events occur and so I think

594
00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:22,620
that within the Big G government it's

595
00:24:25,789 --> 00:24:24,240
kind of like the Catholic church and I'm

596
00:24:27,710 --> 00:24:25,799
not a spokesperson for the Catholic

597
00:24:30,289 --> 00:24:27,720
church or the government but when you

598
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:30,299
look at each of these institutions they

599
00:24:35,149 --> 00:24:32,640
they are coherent you know they there

600
00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:35,159
are different factions and aspects of

601
00:24:39,710 --> 00:24:38,280
each that don't agree and so um you know

602
00:24:41,090 --> 00:24:39,720
you have really Conservative Catholics

603
00:24:43,370 --> 00:24:41,100
you have really Progressive Catholics

604
00:24:44,930 --> 00:24:43,380
they don't agree yeah exactly we always

605
00:24:46,130 --> 00:24:44,940
have to keep in mind that like the

606
00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:46,140
people within the government they

607
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:48,600
they're they're individuals you know

608
00:24:52,370 --> 00:24:50,640
they're not all under one mindset

609
00:24:54,890 --> 00:24:52,380
everyone has their own agenda their own

610
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:54,900
motives their own beliefs so Leslie I

611
00:24:58,370 --> 00:24:56,640
guess if you if there's anything you can

612
00:25:01,370 --> 00:24:58,380
add to that in your work with

613
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:01,380
discovering all this with atip and

614
00:25:06,890 --> 00:25:04,799
um the programs with UFOs uh that did

615
00:25:08,990 --> 00:25:06,900
you ever find anything that had

616
00:25:11,630 --> 00:25:09,000
religious undertones to it when it came

617
00:25:14,270 --> 00:25:11,640
to all this actually yes

618
00:25:16,610 --> 00:25:14,280
um I learned that there is a there are

619
00:25:19,730 --> 00:25:16,620
religious Christian fundamentalists

620
00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:19,740
within the defense department and within

621
00:25:25,730 --> 00:25:22,620
the defense intelligence agency right

622
00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:25,740
way back when the thing started that uh

623
00:25:30,409 --> 00:25:28,260
believe that UFOs are are connected to

624
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:30,419
the devil literally that they should not

625
00:25:34,430 --> 00:25:32,760
be studied therefore that it's you know

626
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:34,440
it's just something evil about them or

627
00:25:38,570 --> 00:25:36,240
dark about them and it just goes against

628
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:38,580
their religious beliefs and these

629
00:25:41,810 --> 00:25:40,559
fundamentalists have done a lot of

630
00:25:44,930 --> 00:25:41,820
damage

631
00:25:47,690 --> 00:25:44,940
um initially they played a role in sort

632
00:25:50,090 --> 00:25:47,700
of forcing the original director out of

633
00:25:53,149 --> 00:25:50,100
position at the uh you know when he was

634
00:25:56,210 --> 00:25:53,159
involved with all of this since uh since

635
00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:56,220
the program became more of a DOD program

636
00:26:01,070 --> 00:25:58,799
as opposed to a Dia program there have

637
00:26:03,230 --> 00:26:01,080
been people within that within the

638
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:03,240
department who have pushed back a great

639
00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:05,279
deal on this program and caused a lot of

640
00:26:10,430 --> 00:26:07,320
trouble only because of their religious

641
00:26:13,789 --> 00:26:10,440
beliefs and I just found it so hard to

642
00:26:15,649 --> 00:26:13,799
believe this when I learned it uh maybe

643
00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:15,659
it's not as difficult for a Diana to

644
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:18,000
believe this but for me to believe that

645
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:20,880
that to recognize and to learn that's uh

646
00:26:26,570 --> 00:26:24,000
people in positions of power who think

647
00:26:30,409 --> 00:26:26,580
that their personal religious beliefs

648
00:26:32,029 --> 00:26:30,419
should govern what gets investigated and

649
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,039
especially when these are physical

650
00:26:37,370 --> 00:26:34,320
things that are happening and that can

651
00:26:40,130 --> 00:26:37,380
potentially be a threat or you know an

652
00:26:42,289 --> 00:26:40,140
inner safety issue and yet they believe

653
00:26:44,149 --> 00:26:42,299
that their religious beliefs which are

654
00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:44,159
really just a belief system that they

655
00:26:48,590 --> 00:26:46,500
happen to have that they somehow have

656
00:26:51,169 --> 00:26:48,600
the right to feel that they should stop

657
00:26:53,330 --> 00:26:51,179
all of these studies because of that I

658
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:53,340
found that to be really shocking but

659
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:55,919
it's prevalent and it's true and it's

660
00:27:00,529 --> 00:26:58,080
been an issue for the people working on

661
00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:00,539
the program I have to Echo what Leslie

662
00:27:05,149 --> 00:27:03,240
says here so I've met many people who

663
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:05,159
and I even registered this I remember

664
00:27:11,210 --> 00:27:08,000
once on Twitter when I was on Twitter

665
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:11,220
that they have as she said shut down

666
00:27:18,110 --> 00:27:15,600
some of the programs and I think that

667
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:18,120
part of it is motivated here I am a

668
00:27:22,490 --> 00:27:19,679
religious study scholar so it's kind of

669
00:27:24,590 --> 00:27:22,500
speaking to this because not every

670
00:27:27,289 --> 00:27:24,600
experience is a pleasant one you know

671
00:27:28,970 --> 00:27:27,299
and people people do get like Burns and

672
00:27:31,370 --> 00:27:28,980
you know hurt through this and I think

673
00:27:32,750 --> 00:27:31,380
that they believe that this is evil and

674
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:32,760
so they think they're dealing with

675
00:27:37,370 --> 00:27:35,279
something that they can't really

676
00:27:39,169 --> 00:27:37,380
um you know they can't get their mind

677
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:39,179
around right but they can they can

678
00:27:42,769 --> 00:27:41,039
understand it religiously so I agree

679
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:42,779
with Leslie that was a shock for me

680
00:27:46,730 --> 00:27:45,120
after my book was finished and I you

681
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:46,740
know it's not like the research stopped

682
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:50,159
either research is still there and so I

683
00:27:54,769 --> 00:27:52,799
was uh literally shocked to to know this

684
00:27:56,269 --> 00:27:54,779
I think just as Leslie was too right and

685
00:27:58,850 --> 00:27:56,279
I think one of the things we have to

686
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:58,860
keep in mind too is uh this recent

687
00:28:03,710 --> 00:28:00,720
article that came out where we learned

688
00:28:05,930 --> 00:28:03,720
more about the the individual studies

689
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,940
that were going on during bass and

690
00:28:10,610 --> 00:28:07,679
awesome and atip and all these UFO

691
00:28:12,649 --> 00:28:10,620
programs is they were looking at the

692
00:28:15,769 --> 00:28:12,659
physical effects that UFOs were having

693
00:28:18,529 --> 00:28:15,779
on people and that's huge we're not just

694
00:28:20,750 --> 00:28:18,539
talking about lights in the sky that you

695
00:28:23,390 --> 00:28:20,760
know military people are reporting we're

696
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:23,400
talking about straight up physiological

697
00:28:28,010 --> 00:28:25,679
effects that these things is for having

698
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:28,020
on people so that that was a big

699
00:28:32,690 --> 00:28:30,720
surprise to me I mean was this anything

700
00:28:35,450 --> 00:28:32,700
that the two of you were aware of that

701
00:28:38,210 --> 00:28:35,460
they were looking at I was aware of it

702
00:28:40,610 --> 00:28:38,220
um it scares me yeah I I actually had a

703
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:40,620
section of it in my book where I'm I'm

704
00:28:45,710 --> 00:28:43,740
with Tyler and James and James is

705
00:28:48,909 --> 00:28:45,720
talking about the physical effects he's

706
00:28:51,470 --> 00:28:48,919
actually studying them and I at that

707
00:28:53,210 --> 00:28:51,480
during that time period it scared me it

708
00:28:56,390 --> 00:28:53,220
kept me up that whole night because it

709
00:28:58,490 --> 00:28:56,400
was so disturbing so there are there are

710
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:58,500
positive physical effects and there are

711
00:29:02,330 --> 00:29:00,720
also some negative they happen to

712
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:02,340
different people and I think what

713
00:29:04,669 --> 00:29:03,600
they're trying to do is find out why

714
00:29:08,570 --> 00:29:04,679
they're happening to different people

715
00:29:10,730 --> 00:29:08,580
like why why do some populations have

716
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:10,740
have good effects right or interesting

717
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:12,960
effects and why do some populations have

718
00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:15,120
really negative effects yeah I think it

719
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:16,860
really comes down to perspective Leslie

720
00:29:20,570 --> 00:29:18,480
do you have anything to add to that yeah

721
00:29:22,970 --> 00:29:20,580
I was just um I've been aware of the

722
00:29:24,529 --> 00:29:22,980
studies that have been going on very

723
00:29:27,169 --> 00:29:24,539
quietly they've been going on for a long

724
00:29:28,909 --> 00:29:27,179
time time and it just to me is one of

725
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:28,919
the most important aspects to study

726
00:29:34,010 --> 00:29:31,679
because they're looking into what

727
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,020
features of the brain how that how

728
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:36,720
features within the brain relate to the

729
00:29:40,430 --> 00:29:38,399
Paranormal experiences that people have

730
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:40,440
after encounters or whatever whatever

731
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:42,720
you know whatever draws them to having

732
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:45,120
those experiences there's a whole realm

733
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:47,039
of research that can be done there

734
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:49,440
that's completely fascinating and I

735
00:29:52,430 --> 00:29:50,640
think you know what's really interesting

736
00:29:53,330 --> 00:29:52,440
about Diana's work

737
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:53,340
um this might be something really

738
00:29:57,549 --> 00:29:55,200
interesting for you the common and Diana

739
00:30:00,529 --> 00:29:57,559
is you know we've got this

740
00:30:03,230 --> 00:30:00,539
physicality of the phenomenon which is

741
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:03,240
so well documented and which you are

742
00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:05,520
totally aware of obviously and yet

743
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:07,080
you're also looking at it from this

744
00:30:13,490 --> 00:30:09,600
other perspective of its context within

745
00:30:16,190 --> 00:30:13,500
religion and mythology and culture and I

746
00:30:18,169 --> 00:30:16,200
think some people misunderstand your

747
00:30:21,169 --> 00:30:18,179
work and that they think you're saying

748
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:21,179
that UFOs aren't physically real if they

749
00:30:25,070 --> 00:30:23,760
fit into some religious context so it

750
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:25,080
might be really interesting for you to

751
00:30:29,810 --> 00:30:27,840
clarify that for people oh yeah so

752
00:30:32,510 --> 00:30:29,820
basically what I'm saying is that we

753
00:30:34,970 --> 00:30:32,520
have someone like Tyler who believes

754
00:30:36,350 --> 00:30:34,980
that he's in direct contact with at

755
00:30:40,610 --> 00:30:36,360
least benign

756
00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:40,620
ETI right and he has excellent benefits

757
00:30:46,970 --> 00:30:44,580
from it people during the the Nimitz

758
00:30:50,090 --> 00:30:46,980
episode some of those people have had

759
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:50,100
some very fascinating after effects or

760
00:30:55,850 --> 00:30:53,039
you know they're basically contact event

761
00:30:58,610 --> 00:30:55,860
After Effects and somebody made a list

762
00:31:01,430 --> 00:30:58,620
it may have been high neck of but these

763
00:31:04,029 --> 00:31:01,440
these effects and they include things

764
00:31:07,789 --> 00:31:04,039
like uh what appears to be precognition

765
00:31:09,769 --> 00:31:07,799
and you know knowing things and things

766
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:09,779
like that that are that would be

767
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:11,760
considered uh kind of like superhero

768
00:31:15,889 --> 00:31:14,399
effects right and then some people don't

769
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:15,899
have those effects and have opposite

770
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:18,720
effects and you know become ill from it

771
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:21,600
so the question is is that and Leslie

772
00:31:26,690 --> 00:31:23,600
brings it up you know is there something

773
00:31:29,210 --> 00:31:26,700
physiologically different uh about these

774
00:31:31,250 --> 00:31:29,220
people and I think that that's a

775
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:31,260
question that's that's lots of people

776
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:33,600
are asking right now I know the Navy is

777
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:37,919
actually do is asking for proposals to

778
00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:41,039
study people who do have what they

779
00:31:45,230 --> 00:31:43,020
consider they even call it a sixth sense

780
00:31:49,010 --> 00:31:45,240
you know and they're trying to kind of

781
00:31:50,990 --> 00:31:49,020
um help develop that in and my question

782
00:31:52,490 --> 00:31:51,000
is why I mean I know why they're trying

783
00:31:55,850 --> 00:31:52,500
to do that because it helps soldiers

784
00:31:57,230 --> 00:31:55,860
right in battle and things like that but

785
00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:57,240
um you know kind of creating a super

786
00:32:03,490 --> 00:32:01,440
Soldier but what's been found out is

787
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:03,500
that through some of these Encounters

788
00:32:10,250 --> 00:32:06,720
this is like this part of somebody's

789
00:32:12,110 --> 00:32:10,260
brain is like supercharged somehow and

790
00:32:14,090 --> 00:32:12,120
um that's fascinating and I didn't

791
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:14,100
expect it I'm sure Leslie didn't expect

792
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:15,120
it

793
00:32:24,649 --> 00:32:22,080
people just then I know after my book

794
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:24,659
was published a lot of people contacted

795
00:32:29,330 --> 00:32:26,399
me who are part of different military

796
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:29,340
programs and basically said this is what

797
00:32:33,409 --> 00:32:31,679
happens to me and and you know and it

798
00:32:37,310 --> 00:32:33,419
was I just have so many of these people

799
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:37,320
now so who are I correspond with the

800
00:32:43,250 --> 00:32:40,320
whole remote viewing project comes to

801
00:32:46,730 --> 00:32:43,260
mind for me and how serious they took

802
00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:46,740
this for so long with SRI or the CIA

803
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:51,240
like using people with these these sixth

804
00:32:55,130 --> 00:32:52,799
sense as it were to

805
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:55,140
um to either weaponize it or use it as a

806
00:33:00,889 --> 00:32:58,559
benefit so it is a very a interesting

807
00:33:02,810 --> 00:33:00,899
way to look at all this and I think when

808
00:33:05,690 --> 00:33:02,820
we really look at atip and everything at

809
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:05,700
the surface these government-funded UFO

810
00:33:10,850 --> 00:33:08,399
programs yeah that's fine and that's

811
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:10,860
interesting but when you really dig deep

812
00:33:15,950 --> 00:33:13,440
into what they were exploring that's

813
00:33:18,769 --> 00:33:15,960
when it just blows everything wide open

814
00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:18,779
and the the truth is far stranger than

815
00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:20,159
any fiction we probably could have

816
00:33:25,810 --> 00:33:22,980
thought it was going to be definitely

817
00:33:30,889 --> 00:33:28,190
spreck here as you all know the summer

818
00:33:32,990 --> 00:33:30,899
on the skies podcast is always free to

819
00:33:35,210 --> 00:33:33,000
consume but it isn't free to create

820
00:33:37,610 --> 00:33:35,220
that's why I've started this somewhere

821
00:33:39,769 --> 00:33:37,620
in the sky's patreon campaign on a

822
00:33:41,930 --> 00:33:39,779
monthly basis you give what you think

823
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:41,940
the show is worth you'll be helping the

824
00:33:47,389 --> 00:33:44,399
show continue grow and to be something

825
00:33:49,370 --> 00:33:47,399
truly communal and remember there are

826
00:33:52,190 --> 00:33:49,380
rewards for each level of contribution

827
00:33:54,649 --> 00:33:52,200
and the list is only grown so please

828
00:33:57,169 --> 00:33:54,659
help somewhere in the skies Now by

829
00:33:59,470 --> 00:33:57,179
becoming a patron to contribute and to

830
00:34:02,210 --> 00:33:59,480
learn more visit

831
00:34:04,850 --> 00:34:02,220
www.patreon.com backslash somewhere

832
00:34:07,230 --> 00:34:04,860
Skies thank you for your support and now

833
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:07,240
on with the show

834
00:34:11,570 --> 00:34:08,399
[Music]

835
00:34:13,849 --> 00:34:11,580
well we we talked about you know these

836
00:34:16,369 --> 00:34:13,859
things harming people the the effects on

837
00:34:20,089 --> 00:34:16,379
human beings when in relation to UFOs I

838
00:34:22,010 --> 00:34:20,099
I gotta ask you to with a tip and with

839
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:22,020
um sort of the way the narrative is

840
00:34:27,109 --> 00:34:24,720
being painted today with uh those

841
00:34:29,810 --> 00:34:27,119
controlling what is getting out there to

842
00:34:31,490 --> 00:34:29,820
the mainstream we're seeing UFOs as a

843
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:31,500
threat this is a threat threat threat

844
00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:33,599
threat threat We Can't Stop hearing

845
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:35,700
about this so I gotta ask between the

846
00:34:39,829 --> 00:34:36,960
two of you what are your personal

847
00:34:42,050 --> 00:34:39,839
thoughts on this sort of one angle or

848
00:34:44,450 --> 00:34:42,060
narrative that seems to be painted by

849
00:34:47,210 --> 00:34:44,460
the way the military looks at all this I

850
00:34:49,609 --> 00:34:47,220
mean and I I just I think it's important

851
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:49,619
for people to understand that the

852
00:34:53,210 --> 00:34:51,359
Department of Defense the job of the

853
00:34:55,490 --> 00:34:53,220
Department of Defense is to protect the

854
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:55,500
American people and that's what they do

855
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:57,839
and so if there's going to be a program

856
00:35:03,650 --> 00:35:00,240
set up within that department to study

857
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:03,660
this it has to fit that framework it has

858
00:35:09,290 --> 00:35:06,240
to have some kind of agenda at least as

859
00:35:11,089 --> 00:35:09,300
it's presented officially that will fit

860
00:35:14,750 --> 00:35:11,099
into the Mandate of the Department of

861
00:35:17,089 --> 00:35:14,760
Defense so naturally uh this has to be

862
00:35:19,250 --> 00:35:17,099
associated with some kind of a threat in

863
00:35:21,890 --> 00:35:19,260
order for them to be able to operate a

864
00:35:23,089 --> 00:35:21,900
program like this and I think I mean I I

865
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:23,099
remember that was one of the first

866
00:35:27,530 --> 00:35:25,440
questions I I asked Elizondo about

867
00:35:28,609 --> 00:35:27,540
during the time when he first left the

868
00:35:30,109 --> 00:35:28,619
Pentagon

869
00:35:33,650 --> 00:35:30,119
um was this whole thing about you know

870
00:35:36,050 --> 00:35:33,660
the the name threat being in the title

871
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:36,060
of the program and his concern about

872
00:35:42,050 --> 00:35:39,119
these objects could be a possible threat

873
00:35:44,510 --> 00:35:42,060
or they are a threat and

874
00:35:46,250 --> 00:35:44,520
um we all know that there have not been

875
00:35:48,589 --> 00:35:46,260
incidences I mean there's been a couple

876
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,599
of cases in which um Pilots will

877
00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:50,400
potentially you know anyway there's two

878
00:35:55,730 --> 00:35:53,640
cases in my book involving Pilots uh

879
00:35:59,569 --> 00:35:55,740
doing sort of battle type things with

880
00:36:02,450 --> 00:35:59,579
UFOs but in general UFOs have not been a

881
00:36:04,910 --> 00:36:02,460
threat they have not harmed anyone and

882
00:36:07,069 --> 00:36:04,920
so he explained to me that um the word

883
00:36:10,250 --> 00:36:07,079
threat and that's in the scenario within

884
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:10,260
a tip is only the Potential Threat that

885
00:36:14,089 --> 00:36:12,240
anything that we cannot explain that's

886
00:36:15,650 --> 00:36:14,099
operating in our skies that is

887
00:36:17,630 --> 00:36:15,660
completely foreign to us and it

888
00:36:20,329 --> 00:36:17,640
demonstrates extremely sophisticated

889
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:20,339
technology that interacts with our

890
00:36:25,970 --> 00:36:23,040
aircraft and for instance if the

891
00:36:28,069 --> 00:36:25,980
Roosevelt comes very close to them has

892
00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:28,079
to be considered a Potential Threat but

893
00:36:32,329 --> 00:36:29,760
I think the word potential is really

894
00:36:34,490 --> 00:36:32,339
important it's only a Potential Threat

895
00:36:36,170 --> 00:36:34,500
because we don't know what it is and

896
00:36:38,089 --> 00:36:36,180
therefore we don't know what it might do

897
00:36:40,609 --> 00:36:38,099
sometime in the future or we don't know

898
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:40,619
what kind of accidents might occur with

899
00:36:45,650 --> 00:36:43,200
it non-intentional things could happen

900
00:36:48,170 --> 00:36:45,660
so that's why they have to frame it that

901
00:36:50,089 --> 00:36:48,180
way and I understand the concepts of a

902
00:36:51,530 --> 00:36:50,099
Potential Threat and I'm talking not so

903
00:36:54,109 --> 00:36:51,540
much about what Diana was talking about

904
00:36:56,450 --> 00:36:54,119
about effects on individual people I'm

905
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:56,460
talking about interactions in the sky

906
00:37:01,790 --> 00:36:58,800
involving interacting with the physical

907
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:01,800
objects the whole other level of this is

908
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:03,839
the the implica you know the impact on

909
00:37:07,970 --> 00:37:06,240
individual people but that's not what

910
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:07,980
the atip program is dealing with it's

911
00:37:10,910 --> 00:37:08,880
more

912
00:37:12,890 --> 00:37:10,920
um the physicality of it things flying

913
00:37:15,050 --> 00:37:12,900
around the skies and they have to see

914
00:37:17,210 --> 00:37:15,060
that as a possible or Potential Threat

915
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:17,220
but that doesn't mean that Elizondo or

916
00:37:20,870 --> 00:37:18,960
the people involved with the program

917
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,880
that are the people even involved now

918
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:22,560
look at this as some kind of a threat

919
00:37:26,990 --> 00:37:24,720
and are trying to paint it in that way

920
00:37:29,089 --> 00:37:27,000
because they don't that's interesting

921
00:37:31,730 --> 00:37:29,099
yeah I think that is sort of the biggest

922
00:37:33,530 --> 00:37:31,740
debate now is why are the people

923
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:33,540
involved with atip and these government

924
00:37:37,310 --> 00:37:35,280
programs only looking at it that way

925
00:37:39,290 --> 00:37:37,320
Leslie so I'm glad you could clear that

926
00:37:42,109 --> 00:37:39,300
up for us because I think you're right I

927
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:42,119
think the Potential Threat is is the

928
00:37:45,650 --> 00:37:43,440
problem when you look at the Nimitz

929
00:37:48,050 --> 00:37:45,660
event the you have the radar operators

930
00:37:50,750 --> 00:37:48,060
and Pilots saying this could have

931
00:37:53,390 --> 00:37:50,760
started a war or you look at the case in

932
00:37:56,150 --> 00:37:53,400
your book Leslie with parvis Jafari

933
00:37:58,370 --> 00:37:56,160
having a dog fight with a UFO these are

934
00:38:01,130 --> 00:37:58,380
potential threats to the people who are

935
00:38:05,450 --> 00:38:01,140
up there to defend us and it could cause

936
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:05,460
harm to them at their own hand so it

937
00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:07,680
might not be that these UFOs want to

938
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:10,140
harm us or hurt us but it's our reaction

939
00:38:15,230 --> 00:38:12,720
to them that could could really do that

940
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:15,240
that is the reason that this I mean

941
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:17,040
that's one of the main reasons why this

942
00:38:20,690 --> 00:38:18,720
needs to be made public and what you

943
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:20,700
just said about our reaction to them

944
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:23,040
because for instance commercial pilots

945
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:25,440
if they're not allowed first of all

946
00:38:29,390 --> 00:38:26,880
they're not even allowed to talk to them

947
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:29,400
at risk but they should be encouraged to

948
00:38:34,250 --> 00:38:32,160
report these things because and this was

949
00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:34,260
a point that the generals and others

950
00:38:38,329 --> 00:38:36,240
made in this the French report called

951
00:38:41,390 --> 00:38:38,339
the cometa report which is what got me

952
00:38:44,089 --> 00:38:41,400
started in all of this in 1990 they made

953
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:44,099
the point that if Pilots aren't educated

954
00:38:49,370 --> 00:38:47,040
about these things there's a risk of

955
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:49,380
some an accident happening because of

956
00:38:54,410 --> 00:38:51,599
their reactions not because of anything

957
00:38:57,950 --> 00:38:54,420
that the UFO is doing but because the

958
00:38:59,750 --> 00:38:57,960
pilots could react in ways of fear or

959
00:39:02,089 --> 00:38:59,760
they have a knee-jerk reaction but do

960
00:39:04,010 --> 00:39:02,099
something dangerous and the only reason

961
00:39:06,890 --> 00:39:04,020
for that is that they're not informed

962
00:39:08,750 --> 00:39:06,900
they're not given information about the

963
00:39:10,910 --> 00:39:08,760
phenomenon and they're not even allowed

964
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:10,920
to talk about it so I just wanted to add

965
00:39:16,730 --> 00:39:13,920
that that's a big reason why this needs

966
00:39:20,089 --> 00:39:16,740
to be made public and why the commercial

967
00:39:22,550 --> 00:39:20,099
Aviation world needs to become you know

968
00:39:24,349 --> 00:39:22,560
have a better relationship to it and to

969
00:39:26,450 --> 00:39:24,359
encourage their pilots to be educated

970
00:39:27,950 --> 00:39:26,460
about it because it's going to lead to

971
00:39:30,109 --> 00:39:27,960
some kind of accident someday if we

972
00:39:32,990 --> 00:39:30,119
don't do that okay Diana sorry for

973
00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:33,000
jumping in like that no no uh Leslie

974
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:35,160
articulated it perfectly in the

975
00:39:39,650 --> 00:39:36,720
beginning of my book I think in the

976
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:39,660
introduction I quote Eric Davis and he

977
00:39:43,550 --> 00:39:41,280
basically said

978
00:39:46,130 --> 00:39:43,560
um you know the fact that we have

979
00:39:47,870 --> 00:39:46,140
unknown things flying around that you

980
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:47,880
know don't look like they're foreign and

981
00:39:53,210 --> 00:39:51,119
don't look like they're ours is a case

982
00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:53,220
for the Department of Defense it's a

983
00:39:59,089 --> 00:39:55,980
military situation and I think that the

984
00:40:01,609 --> 00:39:59,099
dod is doing their job I mean I I you

985
00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:01,619
know met so many military people who

986
00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:04,800
were involved and you know it's not

987
00:40:08,270 --> 00:40:07,140
conspiracy against the American people I

988
00:40:10,849 --> 00:40:08,280
think that what they're trying to do is

989
00:40:12,829 --> 00:40:10,859
actually help and defend us and they're

990
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:12,839
doing their job but I agree with Leslie

991
00:40:16,910 --> 00:40:14,880
I think that at the time you know there

992
00:40:18,589 --> 00:40:16,920
are too many people who see them and

993
00:40:22,790 --> 00:40:18,599
there are too many people who encounter

994
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:22,800
them for it to stay status quo I think

995
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:26,400
it's time now to acknowledge and also to

996
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:28,800
move on and to say that you know we're

997
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:30,960
not in a fight here the American people

998
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:32,640
are not in a fight with the military

999
00:40:37,069 --> 00:40:34,560
regarding this and you know if they're

1000
00:40:38,690 --> 00:40:37,079
keeping something it's it's they're

1001
00:40:40,849 --> 00:40:38,700
doing it for a reason you know we don't

1002
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:40,859
ask them to share information about

1003
00:40:45,290 --> 00:40:43,440
people that were you know at supposed

1004
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:45,300
war with or something like that because

1005
00:40:49,250 --> 00:40:47,280
we know that they're doing that for a

1006
00:40:51,410 --> 00:40:49,260
reason so we trust them in that respect

1007
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:51,420
you know so I agree with Leslie

1008
00:40:56,329 --> 00:40:54,000
completely that that the people that I

1009
00:40:58,069 --> 00:40:56,339
met at least they were they believed

1010
00:41:00,170 --> 00:40:58,079
they were doing their job and I believe

1011
00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:00,180
they were doing it too well this kind of

1012
00:41:05,390 --> 00:41:02,880
brings me to uh something that really I

1013
00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:05,400
think melds both of the worlds together

1014
00:41:09,470 --> 00:41:07,260
of what you two are doing in terms of

1015
00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:09,480
investigative journalism and research

1016
00:41:15,410 --> 00:41:12,720
and that's the Vatican the Vatican has

1017
00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:15,420
become much more vocal I'd say within

1018
00:41:22,370 --> 00:41:18,720
the last year or so about their stance

1019
00:41:24,770 --> 00:41:22,380
on the whole alien question or even UFO

1020
00:41:28,190 --> 00:41:24,780
cases specifically so I'd love to hear

1021
00:41:30,770 --> 00:41:28,200
both of your thoughts on mixing the

1022
00:41:33,470 --> 00:41:30,780
largest religious you know organization

1023
00:41:34,970 --> 00:41:33,480
in the Free World and

1024
00:41:37,490 --> 00:41:34,980
um you know governments around the world

1025
00:41:39,410 --> 00:41:37,500
when it comes to these topics so I guess

1026
00:41:40,970 --> 00:41:39,420
Diana yeah would you mind commenting on

1027
00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:40,980
what's going on with the Vatican

1028
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:43,200
somewhere you've actually gone to into

1029
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:45,839
the secret archives and looked at their

1030
00:41:50,569 --> 00:41:48,480
stuff okay so I'm not a spokesperson for

1031
00:41:52,849 --> 00:41:50,579
the Catholic church and so I always have

1032
00:41:55,849 --> 00:41:52,859
to you know qualify that I do work with

1033
00:41:58,430 --> 00:41:55,859
them though on projects and having to do

1034
00:42:00,530 --> 00:41:58,440
with by locating Saints and levitating

1035
00:42:02,750 --> 00:42:00,540
Saints and things like that and I've

1036
00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:02,760
been there I was there with Tyler I

1037
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:04,740
report about that in my book and I have

1038
00:42:09,650 --> 00:42:06,720
seen they have a space Observatory by

1039
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:09,660
the way where they house all information

1040
00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:11,760
that has to do with space and space

1041
00:42:15,410 --> 00:42:13,920
research and that's in Castle Gandolfo

1042
00:42:18,410 --> 00:42:15,420
which is about an hour and a half

1043
00:42:22,510 --> 00:42:18,420
outside of Rome and it's run by Brother

1044
00:42:26,089 --> 00:42:22,520
guy councilmanio and he is uh I believe

1045
00:42:27,410 --> 00:42:26,099
his oh what does he do he's oh he's a uh

1046
00:42:29,150 --> 00:42:27,420
they're they're really looking at

1047
00:42:32,210 --> 00:42:29,160
meteorites a lot they have a huge

1048
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:32,220
meteorite collection and so um they have

1049
00:42:35,329 --> 00:42:33,839
a giant telescope there but they have a

1050
00:42:38,510 --> 00:42:35,339
bigger one in Arizona where they

1051
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:38,520
actually do a lot of their work and so

1052
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:41,040
um what's up with the Vatican and UFOs I

1053
00:42:45,050 --> 00:42:42,960
think that there is no official position

1054
00:42:46,849 --> 00:42:45,060
on UFOs

1055
00:42:49,069 --> 00:42:46,859
um with the Vatican I know that's the

1056
00:42:51,470 --> 00:42:49,079
case and just again like the government

1057
00:42:53,450 --> 00:42:51,480
there are different positions within the

1058
00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:53,460
Vatican about UFOs they know some people

1059
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:55,680
who believe in them and believe that

1060
00:43:01,370 --> 00:42:59,040
they are you know created by God and

1061
00:43:04,190 --> 00:43:01,380
that they and that they exist but you do

1062
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:04,200
have the space Observatory there

1063
00:43:09,770 --> 00:43:07,200
um basically running conferences and

1064
00:43:11,150 --> 00:43:09,780
inviting people from seti and from you

1065
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:11,160
know all over the world to talk about

1066
00:43:16,910 --> 00:43:14,640
the potential once you know it out that

1067
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:16,920
UFOs exist what how is that going to

1068
00:43:20,930 --> 00:43:18,720
impact religions how is it going to

1069
00:43:23,450 --> 00:43:20,940
impact beliefs and things like that so

1070
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:23,460
they're actively studying it and in

1071
00:43:29,870 --> 00:43:25,760
terms of their historical records

1072
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:29,880
they're fascinating and and as one who

1073
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:32,400
has seen them they do actually have a

1074
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:34,319
whole what what would you call it a

1075
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:36,480
whole wall of uh search for

1076
00:43:41,210 --> 00:43:38,640
extraterrestrial intelligence so they do

1077
00:43:42,410 --> 00:43:41,220
have that I've seen it and um I don't I

1078
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:42,420
don't know if they're going to open that

1079
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:44,880
up I would be surprised if they did but

1080
00:43:52,370 --> 00:43:47,520
maybe they will so a lot of people out

1081
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:52,380
there they believe that there could be a

1082
00:44:00,109 --> 00:43:56,160
connection between the ideas of Miracles

1083
00:44:02,650 --> 00:44:00,119
or uh otherworldly beings or Angelic

1084
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:02,660
beings uh this all somehow being inter

1085
00:44:07,790 --> 00:44:05,040
connected and I would love to get your

1086
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:07,800
thoughts both of you on this since Diana

1087
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:10,380
you you are a professor of religious

1088
00:44:15,710 --> 00:44:12,720
studies and and Leslie you wrote a book

1089
00:44:18,109 --> 00:44:15,720
all about the afterlife life this and

1090
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:18,119
past lives as well this this is a really

1091
00:44:22,670 --> 00:44:20,160
interesting thing that a lot of people

1092
00:44:25,490 --> 00:44:22,680
haven't explored in depth but this idea

1093
00:44:27,290 --> 00:44:25,500
that they could be one and the same that

1094
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:27,300
these things we think are Supernatural

1095
00:44:35,210 --> 00:44:30,960
or paranormal or spiritual are connected

1096
00:44:37,970 --> 00:44:35,220
to E.T so have there been any sort of

1097
00:44:41,150 --> 00:44:37,980
cases or things that either of you have

1098
00:44:42,829 --> 00:44:41,160
come across where uh this could possibly

1099
00:44:45,650 --> 00:44:42,839
be the case

1100
00:44:48,410 --> 00:44:45,660
um I could first say that in my book I

1101
00:44:50,809 --> 00:44:48,420
do explore that I explore especially

1102
00:44:53,569 --> 00:44:50,819
with um I think that if your audience is

1103
00:44:56,510 --> 00:44:53,579
aware of UFOs they're aware of Ray

1104
00:44:59,089 --> 00:44:56,520
Hernandez and his experience with his

1105
00:45:01,130 --> 00:44:59,099
wife in scene and flying saucers and

1106
00:45:03,650 --> 00:45:01,140
things like that and how his wife who's

1107
00:45:07,309 --> 00:45:03,660
Catholic interprets it as Angelic while

1108
00:45:10,190 --> 00:45:07,319
he uh agnostic former atheist

1109
00:45:12,290 --> 00:45:10,200
um interprets it as a you know more of a

1110
00:45:14,569 --> 00:45:12,300
technological UFO type of thing so

1111
00:45:17,930 --> 00:45:14,579
you've got you know two people uh

1112
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:17,940
married and two interpretations there

1113
00:45:22,750 --> 00:45:20,640
um Chris Bledsoe uh goes and and

1114
00:45:25,849 --> 00:45:22,760
re-examines his own Christian religion

1115
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:25,859
and identifies that it's really about

1116
00:45:31,250 --> 00:45:28,800
kind of like the history of UFO contact

1117
00:45:34,130 --> 00:45:31,260
and so he believes that these things are

1118
00:45:37,370 --> 00:45:34,140
Angelic and then um you have a character

1119
00:45:40,370 --> 00:45:37,380
in my book who uh becomes you know from

1120
00:45:42,650 --> 00:45:40,380
believing their uh their UFOs but there

1121
00:45:45,710 --> 00:45:42,660
is a more complicated question then for

1122
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:45,720
him as the book goes on and uh starts to

1123
00:45:51,950 --> 00:45:48,960
see them in a different light so yeah I

1124
00:45:55,130 --> 00:45:51,960
see that and um and I know that Leslie's

1125
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:55,140
research goes on from what she had done

1126
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:59,280
to something completely connected but

1127
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,440
but in a different way yeah it's

1128
00:46:05,630 --> 00:46:03,599
interesting you say connected because

1129
00:46:07,370 --> 00:46:05,640
when I first researched started

1130
00:46:09,890 --> 00:46:07,380
researching the book uh my book

1131
00:46:12,290 --> 00:46:09,900
surviving deaths came out in 2017 which

1132
00:46:15,230 --> 00:46:12,300
deals with issues related to

1133
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:15,240
Consciousness and um you know near-death

1134
00:46:19,550 --> 00:46:18,000
experiences and a lot of stuff exploring

1135
00:46:22,309 --> 00:46:19,560
the possibility that Consciousness

1136
00:46:24,890 --> 00:46:22,319
survives death I actually didn't see

1137
00:46:27,829 --> 00:46:24,900
that to be at all connected with UFOs

1138
00:46:29,329 --> 00:46:27,839
when I started I thought it's just

1139
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:29,339
something completely different than I'm

1140
00:46:33,230 --> 00:46:31,440
doing now and in a lot of ways it was

1141
00:46:35,390 --> 00:46:33,240
very different because my my work with

1142
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:35,400
UFOs always focused just on the physical

1143
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:37,680
aspects of it although I knew I knew

1144
00:46:40,670 --> 00:46:39,119
about other aspects of it I didn't

1145
00:46:44,270 --> 00:46:40,680
really bring them into my professional

1146
00:46:46,190 --> 00:46:44,280
work and so as I went along with this I

1147
00:46:48,589 --> 00:46:46,200
I started to sense that there was some

1148
00:46:51,290 --> 00:46:48,599
connection and then Diana's book really

1149
00:46:53,510 --> 00:46:51,300
opened me up to that reality that there

1150
00:46:55,370 --> 00:46:53,520
is a connection and I'm really

1151
00:46:57,050 --> 00:46:55,380
interested now in trying to find out

1152
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:57,060
more about what that is I've been

1153
00:47:01,309 --> 00:46:59,040
exploring the work of Jeffrey kreipel

1154
00:47:03,890 --> 00:47:01,319
from Rice University who writes a lot

1155
00:47:06,589 --> 00:47:03,900
about issues that that show how they all

1156
00:47:10,190 --> 00:47:06,599
interconnect how experienced people have

1157
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,200
a UFO experiences are are similar to all

1158
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:12,000
kinds of other kinds of paranormal

1159
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:14,160
experiences that people have

1160
00:47:18,890 --> 00:47:17,040
so um I think that sort of one of The

1161
00:47:21,470 --> 00:47:18,900
Cutting Edge questions right now and I

1162
00:47:24,170 --> 00:47:21,480
think Diana's book set this off really

1163
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:24,180
is finding the way that all of these

1164
00:47:29,809 --> 00:47:27,119
things interact that UFOs relate to

1165
00:47:32,809 --> 00:47:29,819
Consciousness the UFOs in some way

1166
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:32,819
relate to uh near-death experiences and

1167
00:47:37,250 --> 00:47:35,760
other aspects of Consciousness existing

1168
00:47:40,370 --> 00:47:37,260
without a body and all the kinds of

1169
00:47:42,410 --> 00:47:40,380
paranormal experiences that people have

1170
00:47:45,109 --> 00:47:42,420
um and I'm really new to all to looking

1171
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:45,119
at it all that way but I'm interested in

1172
00:47:49,550 --> 00:47:48,240
exploring that connection a lot more and

1173
00:47:52,849 --> 00:47:49,560
you know one thing that does come to

1174
00:47:55,010 --> 00:47:52,859
mind is that that UFOs seem to be in

1175
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:55,020
some kind of interdimensional thing at

1176
00:47:58,790 --> 00:47:56,400
least for a lot of the sightings that

1177
00:48:00,770 --> 00:47:58,800
are reported not just the beings but

1178
00:48:02,510 --> 00:48:00,780
also the craft themselves and the way

1179
00:48:04,910 --> 00:48:02,520
they behave that they can just disappear

1180
00:48:06,589 --> 00:48:04,920
for instance almost people describe them

1181
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:06,599
as almost going into some kind of a

1182
00:48:10,970 --> 00:48:08,640
portal or something and Whitley strieber

1183
00:48:13,130 --> 00:48:10,980
has written about the fact that the UFOs

1184
00:48:16,670 --> 00:48:13,140
exist in some other dimension which

1185
00:48:18,829 --> 00:48:16,680
could potentially be the same one that

1186
00:48:20,569 --> 00:48:18,839
people go to when they die or the same

1187
00:48:22,490 --> 00:48:20,579
one that people visit when they have a

1188
00:48:24,349 --> 00:48:22,500
near-death experience where they die and

1189
00:48:25,550 --> 00:48:24,359
have an experience of the afterlife and

1190
00:48:29,210 --> 00:48:25,560
then come back

1191
00:48:31,609 --> 00:48:29,220
so the inter-dimensionality of all of it

1192
00:48:33,470 --> 00:48:31,619
is sort of an interesting place to start

1193
00:48:35,450 --> 00:48:33,480
um I think Diana's gone way beyond that

1194
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:35,460
but I'm just sort of beginning to learn

1195
00:48:40,550 --> 00:48:37,440
more and more about this and I I think

1196
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:40,560
it's really really fascinating yes so um

1197
00:48:45,410 --> 00:48:42,960
I have to agree uh when I first started

1198
00:48:48,349 --> 00:48:45,420
to talk to people who've had experiences

1199
00:48:50,990 --> 00:48:48,359
a lot of them would also have these

1200
00:48:53,450 --> 00:48:51,000
experiences at a place of a location

1201
00:48:56,030 --> 00:48:53,460
where one of their loved ones passed

1202
00:48:58,910 --> 00:48:56,040
away or died and this was an incredibly

1203
00:49:01,309 --> 00:48:58,920
poignant to hear Chris Bledsoe comes to

1204
00:49:03,710 --> 00:49:01,319
mind he lives near me and I know his

1205
00:49:05,930 --> 00:49:03,720
experience inside and out he had before

1206
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:05,940
he was married to his current wife he

1207
00:49:12,410 --> 00:49:07,680
had a wife who passed away in a car

1208
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:12,420
accident and he had an experience of uh

1209
00:49:19,609 --> 00:49:17,520
seeing a UFO right where she passed away

1210
00:49:22,849 --> 00:49:19,619
and this is something that I've seen as

1211
00:49:25,309 --> 00:49:22,859
a pattern in UFO experiences and don't

1212
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:25,319
ask me if I know what it means I do not

1213
00:49:30,050 --> 00:49:28,079
but but you have to take it as data

1214
00:49:31,849 --> 00:49:30,060
because it happens so frequently and

1215
00:49:33,050 --> 00:49:31,859
Whitley Streeper and Jeff Cripe will

1216
00:49:35,089 --> 00:49:33,060
actually Whitley strieber actually

1217
00:49:37,430 --> 00:49:35,099
writes about it a lot and it was his

1218
00:49:39,230 --> 00:49:37,440
wife Ann who basically said I think that

1219
00:49:42,010 --> 00:49:39,240
this is this phenomena has something to

1220
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:42,020
do with death and um I I've never

1221
00:49:46,609 --> 00:49:44,640
forgotten that and their book the

1222
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:46,619
Supernatural is really interesting and

1223
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:49,920
uh Whitley is a funny guy he actually is

1224
00:49:55,490 --> 00:49:52,319
um he's got a sense of humor and about

1225
00:49:57,950 --> 00:49:55,500
this phenomena and he writes about you

1226
00:50:00,770 --> 00:49:57,960
know having these experiences and seeing

1227
00:50:02,930 --> 00:50:00,780
people who were passed away while he was

1228
00:50:05,569 --> 00:50:02,940
having these experiences and he said and

1229
00:50:08,270 --> 00:50:05,579
and you know lists me with those who

1230
00:50:10,490 --> 00:50:08,280
have had UFO experiences and have seen

1231
00:50:12,770 --> 00:50:10,500
the dead right so I mean it's really

1232
00:50:16,730 --> 00:50:12,780
very strange and I agree with Leslie

1233
00:50:20,089 --> 00:50:16,740
that is most a lot of the behavior of

1234
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:20,099
the crafts look interdimensional and um

1235
00:50:23,630 --> 00:50:22,319
what does that even mean you know so

1236
00:50:25,450 --> 00:50:23,640
that's where we have to talk with

1237
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:25,460
scientists and bring them in is in

1238
00:50:29,870 --> 00:50:27,599
interdisciplinary research project here

1239
00:50:32,270 --> 00:50:29,880
is uh you know what we're looking at

1240
00:50:34,609 --> 00:50:32,280
biological as well you know because it

1241
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,619
the way yes and there's certain people

1242
00:50:38,750 --> 00:50:36,960
with certain brain characteristics are

1243
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:38,760
they the ones that have that connection

1244
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:41,220
to all of this as opposed to somebody

1245
00:50:45,470 --> 00:50:42,960
else who doesn't have that kind of a

1246
00:50:48,170 --> 00:50:45,480
brain so that's it does it is it's like

1247
00:50:50,809 --> 00:50:48,180
a massively huge question for all these

1248
00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:50,819
disciplines to come together on and it's

1249
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:52,680
just so unfortunate that there's this

1250
00:50:58,730 --> 00:50:55,920
taboo still exists and so that there

1251
00:51:00,530 --> 00:50:58,740
isn't money provided by the you know by

1252
00:51:02,990 --> 00:51:00,540
the standard sources at least for

1253
00:51:04,250 --> 00:51:03,000
scientific research to to allow these

1254
00:51:06,290 --> 00:51:04,260
things to happen

1255
00:51:08,030 --> 00:51:06,300
um people just have to take them on on

1256
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:08,040
their own and they're very private about

1257
00:51:14,089 --> 00:51:12,000
it and so maybe someday there will be a

1258
00:51:16,190 --> 00:51:14,099
recognition of the value of all of this

1259
00:51:18,650 --> 00:51:16,200
and it can be funded and we can really

1260
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:18,660
learn a lot from that I think you know

1261
00:51:22,370 --> 00:51:20,640
hearing that both of you are exploring

1262
00:51:25,130 --> 00:51:22,380
these other avenues along with other

1263
00:51:27,410 --> 00:51:25,140
scientists journalists and even the

1264
00:51:31,609 --> 00:51:27,420
military Terry this idea that when we're

1265
00:51:34,609 --> 00:51:31,619
dealing with UFOs it's not just aliens I

1266
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:34,619
I have grown so tired of you know

1267
00:51:38,809 --> 00:51:37,200
mainstream media Outlets always going

1268
00:51:41,329 --> 00:51:38,819
back to this like we're dealing with

1269
00:51:44,210 --> 00:51:41,339
Little Green Men we're dealing with uh

1270
00:51:47,450 --> 00:51:44,220
spaceships from Zeta reticuli uh it's

1271
00:51:50,990 --> 00:51:47,460
one tiny tiny tiny fraction of what this

1272
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:51,000
all could be or or represent so it's

1273
00:51:55,309 --> 00:51:53,040
fascinating to know that there are still

1274
00:51:57,890 --> 00:51:55,319
Avenues we can go down to try to find

1275
00:52:00,410 --> 00:51:57,900
answers because look what what has it

1276
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:00,420
been since the modern UFO era began 70

1277
00:52:06,190 --> 00:52:03,119
years whatnot of us looking at this as

1278
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:06,200
alien and finding absolutely no solid

1279
00:52:11,870 --> 00:52:09,119
verifiable evidence that that's true so

1280
00:52:13,250 --> 00:52:11,880
I I think it's exciting to know that we

1281
00:52:16,309 --> 00:52:13,260
can look at it from different ways we

1282
00:52:19,309 --> 00:52:16,319
have people looking at it as humans from

1283
00:52:20,450 --> 00:52:19,319
the future with future technology

1284
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:20,460
um we're looking at it from a

1285
00:52:25,069 --> 00:52:22,559
Consciousness level where maybe this is

1286
00:52:26,329 --> 00:52:25,079
the only way we will someday interact or

1287
00:52:29,390 --> 00:52:26,339
community communicate with the

1288
00:52:32,450 --> 00:52:29,400
phenomenon at large who knows but it's

1289
00:52:34,250 --> 00:52:32,460
it's exciting to hear that these these

1290
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:34,260
things are being explored and we can

1291
00:52:39,170 --> 00:52:36,240
only Venture guests as to where it's

1292
00:52:42,530 --> 00:52:39,180
going to go but um sort of sort of

1293
00:52:45,770 --> 00:52:42,540
wrapping up the UFO side of all this

1294
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:45,780
um I I love to get some some ideas or

1295
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:47,760
advice that you would give some of our

1296
00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:49,680
younger UFO listeners who are kind of

1297
00:52:55,250 --> 00:52:52,079
just getting in to all of this you know

1298
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:55,260
we have this whole ttsa thing

1299
00:53:00,589 --> 00:52:57,839
um that is kind of out there in the

1300
00:53:02,569 --> 00:53:00,599
media and um do you think there's room

1301
00:53:04,910 --> 00:53:02,579
for the rest of the UFO world to

1302
00:53:07,549 --> 00:53:04,920
continue their work separately from what

1303
00:53:10,130 --> 00:53:07,559
these guys are doing and um what advice

1304
00:53:12,049 --> 00:53:10,140
would you give those who want to study

1305
00:53:15,170 --> 00:53:12,059
UFOs and are looking for answers to

1306
00:53:17,089 --> 00:53:15,180
these huge huge questions Diana what do

1307
00:53:19,309 --> 00:53:17,099
you what advice would you give to those

1308
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:19,319
looking into this topic I would start

1309
00:53:25,010 --> 00:53:22,319
with field research so that's what I do

1310
00:53:28,490 --> 00:53:25,020
so I started with talking to people who

1311
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:28,500
have had the experiences and then from

1312
00:53:34,910 --> 00:53:32,160
there be ready to be incredibly shocked

1313
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:34,920
and incred you know have your mind open

1314
00:53:38,930 --> 00:53:36,480
to things that you never thought were

1315
00:53:42,109 --> 00:53:38,940
possible and to synchronicities and

1316
00:53:44,210 --> 00:53:42,119
coincidences and you know and to having

1317
00:53:45,890 --> 00:53:44,220
you know your worldview changed I mean

1318
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:45,900
that's I think what you have to be

1319
00:53:50,690 --> 00:53:47,760
prepared to do I wasn't prepared for

1320
00:53:52,430 --> 00:53:50,700
that and it happened anyway so um I

1321
00:53:54,650 --> 00:53:52,440
loved Leslie's book because it was a

1322
00:53:57,049 --> 00:53:54,660
grounder for me and you know read

1323
00:53:59,150 --> 00:53:57,059
people's books like Leslie's books like

1324
00:54:00,770 --> 00:53:59,160
uh Jacques valet's books like your book

1325
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:00,780
Ryan that talks about the human

1326
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:04,079
experiences you know of of this you need

1327
00:54:08,750 --> 00:54:06,480
to read those books and listen to

1328
00:54:10,490 --> 00:54:08,760
interviews and podcasts of people who

1329
00:54:13,010 --> 00:54:10,500
are doing it and you'll naturally Find

1330
00:54:15,890 --> 00:54:13,020
Your Way Leslie how about you is there

1331
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:15,900
any any advice you'd give those who are

1332
00:54:20,210 --> 00:54:18,720
trying to find answers to all of this

1333
00:54:22,670 --> 00:54:20,220
yeah I mean I

1334
00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:22,680
and what Diana said makes complete sense

1335
00:54:27,530 --> 00:54:24,720
to me I think um I would advise people

1336
00:54:29,390 --> 00:54:27,540
to be very careful about exploring this

1337
00:54:31,730 --> 00:54:29,400
on the internet because

1338
00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:31,740
there is so much stuff out there that's

1339
00:54:35,990 --> 00:54:34,079
just based on supposition or conspiracy

1340
00:54:38,809 --> 00:54:36,000
theories and people making all kinds of

1341
00:54:40,730 --> 00:54:38,819
assumptions about what they are and uh

1342
00:54:44,270 --> 00:54:40,740
you know you've got to be very careful

1343
00:54:46,250 --> 00:54:44,280
to be listening to the right people to

1344
00:54:48,410 --> 00:54:46,260
very reliable people

1345
00:54:49,790 --> 00:54:48,420
I think the experience or realm is

1346
00:54:51,470 --> 00:54:49,800
different because people are sharing

1347
00:54:54,349 --> 00:54:51,480
their own personal experiences but when

1348
00:54:55,490 --> 00:54:54,359
you come to it comes to sort of data

1349
00:54:58,609 --> 00:54:55,500
about

1350
00:55:00,049 --> 00:54:58,619
what UFOs are and stuff like that you've

1351
00:55:01,970 --> 00:55:00,059
just got to be really careful I think

1352
00:55:03,650 --> 00:55:01,980
people probably know that

1353
00:55:05,870 --> 00:55:03,660
um you know it's interesting too when we

1354
00:55:08,030 --> 00:55:05,880
were talking about the issue of UFOs

1355
00:55:10,609 --> 00:55:08,040
expanding well beyond just the

1356
00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:10,619
physicality of it and how I'm interested

1357
00:55:14,569 --> 00:55:11,819
in that

1358
00:55:17,210 --> 00:55:14,579
um I still have to say that in terms of

1359
00:55:19,010 --> 00:55:17,220
the work that I do and what I'm going to

1360
00:55:19,849 --> 00:55:19,020
put out there and continue to put out

1361
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:19,859
there

1362
00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:21,839
through places like the New York Times

1363
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:25,520
has to be focused on that level because

1364
00:55:30,770 --> 00:55:28,079
the only reason that the story in

1365
00:55:32,930 --> 00:55:30,780
December 2017 had such an impact and

1366
00:55:34,609 --> 00:55:32,940
allowed like briefings to occur within

1367
00:55:37,549 --> 00:55:34,619
congressional committees and things like

1368
00:55:41,390 --> 00:55:37,559
that was because it was just so purely

1369
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:41,400
factual and government oriented and so

1370
00:55:46,010 --> 00:55:43,440
my job is to continue to put things out

1371
00:55:49,250 --> 00:55:46,020
there that are just like that that are

1372
00:55:52,370 --> 00:55:49,260
simple and physical and data data-driven

1373
00:55:55,250 --> 00:55:52,380
so that I can continue to

1374
00:55:57,470 --> 00:55:55,260
um get people in the policy making world

1375
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:57,480
and the scientific world in the

1376
00:56:01,670 --> 00:55:59,040
governmental world and all of that to

1377
00:56:04,130 --> 00:56:01,680
take that the subject seriously because

1378
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:04,140
you know the work that Diana does goes

1379
00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:07,200
Way Beyond just sort of the simple like

1380
00:56:13,790 --> 00:56:11,520
level UFO 101 which is hey there's

1381
00:56:16,190 --> 00:56:13,800
physical things out there that exist

1382
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,200
that's basically the message that I have

1383
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:18,240
to keep giving out through my work and

1384
00:56:21,890 --> 00:56:19,920
I'm going to continue to do that so that

1385
00:56:23,870 --> 00:56:21,900
I can't bring a lot of the other

1386
00:56:25,549 --> 00:56:23,880
elements of this into the articles that

1387
00:56:27,530 --> 00:56:25,559
I write but that doesn't mean they're

1388
00:56:30,049 --> 00:56:27,540
not extremely important and that they

1389
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:30,059
that they're not the future of where we

1390
00:56:34,069 --> 00:56:32,400
need to go it's just that I have to be

1391
00:56:36,829 --> 00:56:34,079
careful what I say so that I can keep

1392
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:36,839
doing the job that I'm doing which is to

1393
00:56:42,950 --> 00:56:39,839
reach important people with very basic

1394
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:42,960
uh unarguable facts about the fact that

1395
00:56:47,690 --> 00:56:44,400
the thing exists in the first place

1396
00:56:50,750 --> 00:56:47,700
right I think what's really important is

1397
00:56:53,690 --> 00:56:50,760
in our world today 2020 Post New York

1398
00:56:55,250 --> 00:56:53,700
Times article and uh mainstream really

1399
00:56:59,329 --> 00:56:55,260
starting to take this topic more

1400
00:57:02,510 --> 00:56:59,339
seriously is that we can now say UFOs

1401
00:57:05,390 --> 00:57:02,520
exist and I think that's you know can't

1402
00:57:07,790 --> 00:57:05,400
even be argued at this point now the

1403
00:57:10,010 --> 00:57:07,800
question is what are they what do they

1404
00:57:13,370 --> 00:57:10,020
represent what do they want and that's

1405
00:57:15,530 --> 00:57:13,380
that's a huge shift since you know we

1406
00:57:18,650 --> 00:57:15,540
started looking at this topic and

1407
00:57:21,710 --> 00:57:18,660
phenomenon some what 70 years ago even

1408
00:57:24,829 --> 00:57:21,720
dating way way back before that but um

1409
00:57:27,230 --> 00:57:24,839
this question of you know do UFOs exist

1410
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:27,240
yes we know that no there's definitive

1411
00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:29,520
proof and documentation of that by our

1412
00:57:34,190 --> 00:57:31,920
governments now where do we go after

1413
00:57:36,530 --> 00:57:34,200
that so I want to ask you both sort of

1414
00:57:38,930 --> 00:57:36,540
wrapping wrapping up the the bigger

1415
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:38,940
questions here with all of your research

1416
00:57:43,730 --> 00:57:41,040
and your the relationships you've made

1417
00:57:46,370 --> 00:57:43,740
the stories you've heard what are each

1418
00:57:49,490 --> 00:57:46,380
of your personal best educated

1419
00:57:51,890 --> 00:57:49,500
hypothesis on the nature of these

1420
00:57:54,109 --> 00:57:51,900
phenomenon or or is there even one

1421
00:57:55,790 --> 00:57:54,119
answer to it I I would I would guess not

1422
00:57:57,890 --> 00:57:55,800
but I'd love to hear both your thoughts

1423
00:58:01,309 --> 00:57:57,900
on that you know that's a giant question

1424
00:58:03,530 --> 00:58:01,319
there Ryan to end with I know I know I

1425
00:58:06,650 --> 00:58:03,540
know um I want

1426
00:58:10,250 --> 00:58:06,660
um just to take a moment here and uh

1427
00:58:13,490 --> 00:58:10,260
credit Leslie with you know changing the

1428
00:58:16,270 --> 00:58:13,500
direction of UFO research here uh what

1429
00:58:19,970 --> 00:58:16,280
she's done is momentous and

1430
00:58:22,609 --> 00:58:19,980
unprecedented and I just want to you

1431
00:58:25,069 --> 00:58:22,619
know acknowledge that because you know

1432
00:58:26,450 --> 00:58:25,079
it came out you know the article blew

1433
00:58:29,450 --> 00:58:26,460
everybody's Minds

1434
00:58:31,670 --> 00:58:29,460
and I was like Wow Leslie Kane has done

1435
00:58:33,770 --> 00:58:31,680
something incredible and I I think we

1436
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:33,780
need to acknowledge that so before I I

1437
00:58:38,690 --> 00:58:36,720
answer you know what the the uh next

1438
00:58:40,370 --> 00:58:38,700
type of thing is I think that that has

1439
00:58:41,990 --> 00:58:40,380
to be acknowledged

1440
00:58:45,230 --> 00:58:42,000
um and you know she really made the way

1441
00:58:47,089 --> 00:58:45,240
for my book to come and my book was you

1442
00:58:49,370 --> 00:58:47,099
know published so you know the timing

1443
00:58:52,670 --> 00:58:49,380
was impeccable right after she opened

1444
00:58:55,309 --> 00:58:52,680
the gate and um my my next book is just

1445
00:58:57,049 --> 00:58:55,319
going to be focusing on people that I

1446
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:57,059
met that are along the same lines as

1447
00:59:02,150 --> 00:58:59,040
Tyler and James and I'm going to be

1448
00:59:05,809 --> 00:59:02,160
focusing more on the um the cognition

1449
00:59:07,789 --> 00:59:05,819
that seems to allow for contact Leslie

1450
00:59:10,849 --> 00:59:07,799
do you have anything to add to that in

1451
00:59:12,589 --> 00:59:10,859
in terms of where you lay personally you

1452
00:59:16,010 --> 00:59:12,599
know we we have your investigative

1453
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:16,020
journalism that we we've seen throughout

1454
00:59:19,730 --> 00:59:17,760
the years but what are your personal

1455
00:59:20,930 --> 00:59:19,740
thoughts on the nature of the phenomenon

1456
00:59:24,170 --> 00:59:20,940
if that's something you're comfortable

1457
00:59:26,210 --> 00:59:24,180
sharing I basically feel that it's

1458
00:59:29,690 --> 00:59:26,220
something huge that we don't understand

1459
00:59:31,130 --> 00:59:29,700
we don't know what it is and I think all

1460
00:59:32,450 --> 00:59:31,140
the questions are really compelling

1461
00:59:34,130 --> 00:59:32,460
we've been discussing what those

1462
00:59:39,470 --> 00:59:34,140
questions are that need to be studied

1463
00:59:43,069 --> 00:59:39,480
and it's just this massive big mystery

1464
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:43,079
that's what makes it exciting but um I'm

1465
00:59:47,510 --> 00:59:45,599
just aware of how big it is and how much

1466
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:47,520
we don't understand about it I mean

1467
00:59:52,370 --> 00:59:49,920
there's the physical element of it the

1468
00:59:55,309 --> 00:59:52,380
atip element which is what I focus on in

1469
00:59:58,490 --> 00:59:55,319
my professional life but there's also a

1470
01:00:00,770 --> 00:59:58,500
way bigger element to it and which Diana

1471
01:00:03,470 --> 01:00:00,780
has written about and

1472
01:00:06,530 --> 01:00:03,480
people like chocolate writing about it

1473
01:00:07,730 --> 01:00:06,540
for years so it's just I don't I don't

1474
01:00:10,010 --> 01:00:07,740
know what it is

1475
01:00:12,770 --> 01:00:10,020
and I hope we can just keep learning

1476
01:00:15,049 --> 01:00:12,780
more about it the more we know the less

1477
01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:15,059
we know uh really comes into play with

1478
01:00:19,130 --> 01:00:17,460
this phenomenon and uh that's exciting

1479
01:00:20,990 --> 01:00:19,140
you know I think the journey is far more

1480
01:00:23,569 --> 01:00:21,000
rewarding and trying to find answers

1481
01:00:26,809 --> 01:00:23,579
than possibly finding those answers

1482
01:00:29,450 --> 01:00:26,819
maybe I'm wrong I don't know but um I I

1483
01:00:30,950 --> 01:00:29,460
want to sort of close up here and ask um

1484
01:00:32,990 --> 01:00:30,960
you both are going to be speaking at

1485
01:00:35,630 --> 01:00:33,000
contact in the desert I'll be there as

1486
01:00:38,450 --> 01:00:35,640
well this is going to be in Indian Wells

1487
01:00:40,010 --> 01:00:38,460
California uh is there any anything

1488
01:00:41,630 --> 01:00:40,020
you're willing to share with us about

1489
01:00:43,609 --> 01:00:41,640
what you both will be talking about at

1490
01:00:46,910 --> 01:00:43,619
this event I'm going to be doing a

1491
01:00:48,829 --> 01:00:46,920
lecture about I've called it UFO's

1492
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:48,839
journalism and the New York Times just

1493
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:50,640
about my career covering this as a

1494
01:00:55,250 --> 01:00:53,040
journalist what I've learned along the

1495
01:00:56,809 --> 01:00:55,260
way and then I'm going to discuss the

1496
01:00:59,329 --> 01:00:56,819
whole New York Times Story how it

1497
01:01:01,490 --> 01:00:59,339
happened what it meant uh what the

1498
01:01:03,770 --> 01:01:01,500
process was like and allow people to ask

1499
01:01:06,109 --> 01:01:03,780
a lot of questions about it and then my

1500
01:01:07,730 --> 01:01:06,119
second presentation is on Surviving

1501
01:01:10,730 --> 01:01:07,740
death the book that I wrote that came

1502
01:01:14,089 --> 01:01:10,740
out in 2017 which covers a whole lot of

1503
01:01:16,370 --> 01:01:14,099
aspects of uh Consciousness in relation

1504
01:01:18,349 --> 01:01:16,380
to the question of whether we survive

1505
01:01:20,569 --> 01:01:18,359
death a lot of evidence for that as well

1506
01:01:22,730 --> 01:01:20,579
as my own personal experiences which

1507
01:01:24,230 --> 01:01:22,740
I'll share about that yeah so that's

1508
01:01:26,569 --> 01:01:24,240
that's basically what I'm going to do I

1509
01:01:29,390 --> 01:01:26,579
just wanted to thank Diana for her her

1510
01:01:32,270 --> 01:01:29,400
comment about my my story and the times

1511
01:01:33,950 --> 01:01:32,280
which is not my story it was a three-way

1512
01:01:35,809 --> 01:01:33,960
Story three people are involved in

1513
01:01:40,190 --> 01:01:35,819
writing it but I I also wanted to say

1514
01:01:42,650 --> 01:01:40,200
you know I think that her book is just I

1515
01:01:45,950 --> 01:01:42,660
think it was so important her book

1516
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:45,960
because it opened up the door to the

1517
01:01:50,690 --> 01:01:48,240
academic Community the scientific

1518
01:01:53,030 --> 01:01:50,700
Community the government Community the

1519
01:01:55,849 --> 01:01:53,040
door to the sort of weirder aspects of

1520
01:01:58,370 --> 01:01:55,859
this and the bigger questions about it

1521
01:02:01,130 --> 01:01:58,380
and the historical context for it and

1522
01:02:03,289 --> 01:02:01,140
all of that was presented in a way that

1523
01:02:05,390 --> 01:02:03,299
made it accessible to very very high

1524
01:02:08,270 --> 01:02:05,400
level intelligent people and I know that

1525
01:02:10,130 --> 01:02:08,280
it's being read at those levels and it

1526
01:02:12,049 --> 01:02:10,140
was a game changer in that way because

1527
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:12,059
we've had discussions about these things

1528
01:02:15,410 --> 01:02:13,680
off and on for a long time but she

1529
01:02:17,089 --> 01:02:15,420
pulled together an added a level of

1530
01:02:19,609 --> 01:02:17,099
insight to it that's never been done

1531
01:02:21,710 --> 01:02:19,619
before so I don't know we're kind of the

1532
01:02:24,289 --> 01:02:21,720
mutual praise Society here but I just

1533
01:02:27,109 --> 01:02:24,299
had to acknowledge that I think that

1534
01:02:29,870 --> 01:02:27,119
Diana's book is um is really really

1535
01:02:31,970 --> 01:02:29,880
really significant and I hope the people

1536
01:02:34,670 --> 01:02:31,980
who haven't read it will do so because

1537
01:02:36,049 --> 01:02:34,680
it's it's a brilliant book and it's a

1538
01:02:37,250 --> 01:02:36,059
game changer in the same way the New

1539
01:02:39,410 --> 01:02:37,260
York Times was

1540
01:02:41,870 --> 01:02:39,420
in a different way but it's a game

1541
01:02:43,730 --> 01:02:41,880
changer that's the seed that's amazing I

1542
01:02:45,950 --> 01:02:43,740
mean I think if more people took the

1543
01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:45,960
time to build each other up and uh work

1544
01:02:50,329 --> 01:02:48,240
off of each other's work uh we'd get a

1545
01:02:53,450 --> 01:02:50,339
lot further in this field and this goes

1546
01:02:56,210 --> 01:02:53,460
for any scientific field academic field

1547
01:02:58,970 --> 01:02:56,220
um you know we challenge one another and

1548
01:03:00,829 --> 01:02:58,980
we ask new questions and I think that's

1549
01:03:03,890 --> 01:03:00,839
important or we're not going to get

1550
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:03,900
anywhere so I I have to agree the the

1551
01:03:08,890 --> 01:03:06,000
contributions you two have made to this

1552
01:03:12,349 --> 01:03:08,900
field in the past few years have

1553
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:12,359
outshone so much that comes before it

1554
01:03:16,910 --> 01:03:13,920
and that's not to say that the work by

1555
01:03:19,549 --> 01:03:16,920
many other people isn't appreciated the

1556
01:03:21,530 --> 01:03:19,559
work of Jacques valet the work of uh

1557
01:03:22,910 --> 01:03:21,540
Whitley strieber everyone all these

1558
01:03:25,789 --> 01:03:22,920
people that have looked at the UFO

1559
01:03:29,089 --> 01:03:25,799
phenomenon in every way possible every

1560
01:03:32,270 --> 01:03:29,099
story every hypothesis every um opinion

1561
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:32,280
I think holds some value in the greater

1562
01:03:36,829 --> 01:03:35,280
greater question to all of this so I

1563
01:03:38,690 --> 01:03:36,839
want to first and foremost thank both of

1564
01:03:41,150 --> 01:03:38,700
you for taking the time to do this with

1565
01:03:43,490 --> 01:03:41,160
me today we somehow pulled it off and

1566
01:03:46,430 --> 01:03:43,500
got got together and made this happen

1567
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:46,440
this digital round table and uh I can't

1568
01:03:51,170 --> 01:03:48,720
wait to see what the two of you come up

1569
01:03:53,690 --> 01:03:51,180
with next so yeah let's let's sort of

1570
01:03:55,910 --> 01:03:53,700
end here with um Diana where can we find

1571
01:03:58,370 --> 01:03:55,920
out more about what you're we are up to

1572
01:04:00,470 --> 01:03:58,380
oh I'm going to talk a bit about it at

1573
01:04:01,970 --> 01:04:00,480
contact in the desert actually

1574
01:04:04,190 --> 01:04:01,980
um the next book is

1575
01:04:07,370 --> 01:04:04,200
um I'm writing up the proposal right now

1576
01:04:09,410 --> 01:04:07,380
and as I said I'm um you know I'll be

1577
01:04:13,309 --> 01:04:09,420
redoing my website and kind of talking

1578
01:04:15,170 --> 01:04:13,319
about what I'll be doing on my website

1579
01:04:17,930 --> 01:04:15,180
um and that's probably if people want to

1580
01:04:20,089 --> 01:04:17,940
look uh it's not up yet but that's if

1581
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:20,099
they want to find out what net what is

1582
01:04:22,910 --> 01:04:21,599
next that's what it's going to be and

1583
01:04:25,549 --> 01:04:22,920
it's also going to be a kind of a

1584
01:04:28,730 --> 01:04:25,559
historical look at people who have made

1585
01:04:31,130 --> 01:04:28,740
use of this type of cognitive

1586
01:04:32,630 --> 01:04:31,140
um talents I guess you could call it in

1587
01:04:35,289 --> 01:04:32,640
the past you know there have been people

1588
01:04:39,470 --> 01:04:35,299
in the scientific community in the uh

1589
01:04:41,210 --> 01:04:39,480
1600s 1700s 18 hundreds on up that have

1590
01:04:43,609 --> 01:04:41,220
actually known about this thing and used

1591
01:04:45,770 --> 01:04:43,619
it so that's another thing that people

1592
01:04:48,710 --> 01:04:45,780
don't realize and don't um you know it's

1593
01:04:50,450 --> 01:04:48,720
like a part of History that's Untold so

1594
01:04:52,430 --> 01:04:50,460
I think that's fascinating and and my

1595
01:04:55,250 --> 01:04:52,440
book looks at that and brings it up I'm

1596
01:04:57,230 --> 01:04:55,260
going to spend some time on um a soldier

1597
01:05:00,589 --> 01:04:57,240
a marine and his

1598
01:05:02,270 --> 01:05:00,599
um his training into this that's very

1599
01:05:04,430 --> 01:05:02,280
exciting I can't wait to learn more

1600
01:05:06,530 --> 01:05:04,440
about that uh Leslie where can we find

1601
01:05:09,230 --> 01:05:06,540
out more of what you're up to I would

1602
01:05:10,730 --> 01:05:09,240
say my Facebook page which is um you

1603
01:05:13,190 --> 01:05:10,740
know an author page so you don't have to

1604
01:05:16,849 --> 01:05:13,200
be a friend you just go on and I have a

1605
01:05:19,010 --> 01:05:16,859
website which is survivingdeathcane.com

1606
01:05:20,630 --> 01:05:19,020
um my last name is k-e-a-n but I think

1607
01:05:23,569 --> 01:05:20,640
the best place is probably my Facebook

1608
01:05:26,390 --> 01:05:23,579
page this has been a dream come true for

1609
01:05:27,890 --> 01:05:26,400
me so um thank you to both of you for

1610
01:05:30,349 --> 01:05:27,900
coming on somewhere in the skies today

1611
01:05:31,549 --> 01:05:30,359
thank you Ryan it's been great yeah I'm

1612
01:05:35,210 --> 01:05:31,559
really good I hope maybe we'll do it

1613
01:05:39,289 --> 01:05:37,190
that's it for this week's episode my

1614
01:05:41,450 --> 01:05:39,299
special thanks to both Leslie Kane and

1615
01:05:44,030 --> 01:05:41,460
Diana Walsh basilka for coming on the

1616
01:05:45,710 --> 01:05:44,040
show it was truly an honor talking with

1617
01:05:47,930 --> 01:05:45,720
two of the people who I personally

1618
01:05:50,210 --> 01:05:47,940
believe have moved UFOs to the Forefront

1619
01:05:52,670 --> 01:05:50,220
both in the worlds of Journalism and

1620
01:05:54,470 --> 01:05:52,680
Academia like never before

1621
01:05:56,750 --> 01:05:54,480
to join me next week where the

1622
01:05:59,089 --> 01:05:56,760
conversation continues with Leslie Kane

1623
01:06:02,030 --> 01:05:59,099
where we will be discussing in depth her

1624
01:06:04,190 --> 01:06:02,040
new book surviving death we'll be joined

1625
01:06:05,930 --> 01:06:04,200
by another special guest for what turned

1626
01:06:08,030 --> 01:06:05,940
out to be one of the most powerful and

1627
01:06:09,890 --> 01:06:08,040
compelling discussions I've ever

1628
01:06:11,690 --> 01:06:09,900
conducted on the podcast

1629
01:06:14,270 --> 01:06:11,700
if you have a few moments Please

1630
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:14,280
Subscribe rate and review the show on

1631
01:06:18,530 --> 01:06:16,799
Apple podcasts your Android apps or

1632
01:06:20,809 --> 01:06:18,540
wherever you get the show it helps us

1633
01:06:23,150 --> 01:06:20,819
gain visibility and find new listeners

1634
01:06:26,089 --> 01:06:23,160
we're on Twitter at summer skies and

1635
01:06:28,190 --> 01:06:26,099
Instagram at summer Skies pod be sure to

1636
01:06:31,549 --> 01:06:28,200
get your tickets now for contact in the

1637
01:06:34,150 --> 01:06:31,559
desert they are going super quick to

1638
01:06:37,130 --> 01:06:34,160
learn more and to get your tickets visit

1639
01:06:39,230 --> 01:06:37,140
contactinthedesert.com if you have a UFO

1640
01:06:41,870 --> 01:06:39,240
story you'd like to share or to contact

1641
01:06:44,589 --> 01:06:41,880
me personally use the contact tab on the

1642
01:06:47,150 --> 01:06:44,599
website somewhere in the scotts.com

1643
01:06:50,089 --> 01:06:47,160
my special thanks to the E1 podcast

1644
01:06:52,370 --> 01:06:50,099
Network Rogue planet and especially to

1645
01:06:54,710 --> 01:06:52,380
you for listening I'll see you here next

1646
01:06:56,630 --> 01:06:54,720
week and remember keep your feet on the

1647
01:07:05,450 --> 01:06:56,640
ground but never stop searching

1648
01:07:05,460 --> 01:07:14,529
[Music]

1649
01:07:18,570 --> 01:07:16,660
thank you

1650
01:07:26,270 --> 01:07:18,580
[Applause]

1651
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:31,770
foreign

1652
01:07:42,650 --> 01:07:39,670
[Music]

1653
01:07:44,450 --> 01:07:42,660
is produced by Third Kind Productions in